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View Diary: Ten Things You Might Not Know About Christmas (193 comments)

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  •  Good comment, (4+ / 0-)

    but I'd like to know who these "pagans" were... no one at that time would have thought of themselves that way; "pagan" was a term applied to non-Christians by Christians. Just like there is no group who refers to themselves as "gentiles". What was the time period this was happening?
    My impression is that we're talking about the early middle ages in Northern Europe, Germanic and Norse groups, but I'd like to know more specifically. Thanks.

    Mitt Romney = Draco Malfoy

    by ubertar on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 04:42:12 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  True, Pagan refers to many, EVERYONE's ancestors (1+ / 2-)
      Recommended by:
      createpeace
      Hidden by:
      Timaeus, AaronInSanDiego

      If you are lucky enough to have an original copy of The Oxford English Dictionary v2 (on CD) or earlier, because christian editors deleted all these definitions on v3 and after, you will read:

      Pagan Definition - OED v2: [ad. L. pagan-us, orig. 'villager, rustic; civilian, non-militant', opposed to m_les 'soldier, one of the army', in Christian L. (Tertullian, Augustine) 'heathen' as opposed to Christian or Jewish. The Christians called themselves m_lites 'enrolled soldiers' of Christ, members of his militant church, and applied to non-Christians the term applied by soldiers to all who were 'not enrolled in the army'.

      1. One of a nation or community which does not hold to the non-nature-based (unnatural) christian religion, or does not worship a christian god; a heathen (i.e. 'dweller on the heath', one who lives among the heather). In earlier use practically = non-Christian, and so including Muslims and, sometimes, Jews. (clarifications in parens, mine)

      So when I use the term Pagan, it refers to any culture which was non-christian -- absolutely everyone's ancestors on earth. The only true "christians" are those that were birthed from their fictional jesus' family line. And just like Micky Mouse never had any real ancestors, that means there are no real christians today. Never were.

      Today the oft-referenced OED, the very standard of English word definitions, has but one simple definition of "Pagan": "One who does not believe in the one true god."

      (Lowercase of their god, mine; for the respect that lying, manipulative, and deceitful christians deserve. They have made themselves into a non-proper-noun. Capitalization of a title or word is deemed as a note of respect in the written language. When they renounce and give back every last custom, ritual, and holiday to their rightful cultural owners, then perhaps their names might deserve capitalization again one day. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Because if they did there'd be absolutely nothing left of christianity. And don't even hold your breath waiting for respect from any christian, they don't spread their beliefs that way. That's how it got this far.)

      •  Actually... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, Temmoku, Timaeus

        I'm looking at my new OED and it has a rather nice definition of "pagan" including the paragraphs you quoted and an added definition of "a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions."

        Given the history of the term (as the OED does) that makes sense too.

      •  Thanks, but... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaNang65

        that didn't answer my questions at all. I asked because you seem well informed on this. Who, specifically, were the groups who originated the tree-decorating rituals, and when? I'm assuming it was well before Christianity existed. At what point did Christians start cutting the trees down?

        Now that you've clarified that you're using the word "pagan" in a very broad way, it's even clearer that it's too broad to mean much in this context. It's not what these groups would have called themselves. Who were they? To call them pagan tells us as much as calling them earthlings.

        I'm curious about the details of the history of this. If you don't know, you don't know, but I was hoping you would. I've heard about this in a broad, general way for a long time, but I'd really like to know more specifics.

        Mitt Romney = Draco Malfoy

        by ubertar on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 09:25:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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