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View Diary: Bilbo Obama opens negotiations with the Trolls (124 comments)

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  •  How many non-essential organs (4+ / 0-)

    did Bilbo give up before negotiations began?

    States' rights? Corporate rights? Militia rights? Government rights? Hell no! Only individuals have rights. Proud lifelong human supremacist.

    by happymisanthropy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:43:37 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  So far Obama has given up nothing (6+ / 0-)

      There's no deal yet, is there?

      The dwarves rushed to the assault and ended up in bags in a few seconds. Is that your strategy?

      Obama - POTUS quondam, POTUS futurus The Once and Future President

      by French Imp on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 01:56:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not in the book, they didn't. (7+ / 0-)

        They went after Bilbo, wondering where in the hell he went and what the flickering light was all about. The first most of them knew of any trolls in the area was when a sack went over their heads, one at a time.

        Only Thorin was bright enough or cautious enough to take a look before launching an assault, and he put up a relatively decent fight with a flaming branch before getting caught.

        As far as what Obama has given up - strength in his bargaining position and credibility with his base. Not insignificant items to lose in a negotiation.

        •  Plus, Bilbo would never have gotten caught (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, Kevskos, Words In Action, elwior, Tool

          if he had walked away from a bad deal in the first place.

          States' rights? Corporate rights? Militia rights? Government rights? Hell no! Only individuals have rights. Proud lifelong human supremacist.

          by happymisanthropy on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 02:17:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  you know I really think that some of (0+ / 0-)

          his 'base' never had any crediblity for him in the first or since healthcare or hell maybe even the primaries of 2008

          So that to me is a rather....hollow argument. In some respects it's no different then the entirity of the GOP only instead of the GOP trying to make him fail a good portion of his 'base' wants him to fail to say 'see there! never liked him in the first place'

          Obama's given up nothing, he's promised nothing

          •  Any time a negotiator publicly draws a line, and (6+ / 0-)

            the voluntarily erases it, he's lost bargaining strength. Negotiation 101.

            •  and none of what you said is true (0+ / 0-)

              if and I repeat if Obama believes that CPI is not cutting SS then that's up to him. Moreover nothing has actually happened yet in terms of legislation. Till then it's just back and forth that so far has done nothing because Bohner is predicatably inflexible.

               Further Negotiation 101 actually is, 'you're not going to get everything you want and you're going to have to give something up'

              I don't expect you to agree but if Boehner said 'give us CPI and we'll give you 95% of what you're asking for in cuts and new revenue plus middle class tax cuts', I'd likely say yes.

              •  You're not going to get everything... (1+ / 0-)
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                ... you want, your job is to make the other side give you something in return for everything you give them, make them pay for every inch.

                How many times is Obama going to give away the store for not even dickspit?  And is that kind of learning disability pathetic, or simply not credible?

                •  if you are of the crowd (0+ / 0-)

                  that permanmently thinks Obama is out to get us, we're not going to agree so please just stop

                  There's always give and take, but it would be nice if Obama's 'base' actually was his base.

                  Just saying

                  •  It'd be nice if President Obama ... (0+ / 0-)

                    ... had the same "base" as Candidate Obama.

                    •  in general (0+ / 0-)

                      candidate Obama and President Obama are the same, it would be nice if you understand I think that politics especially for the last 4 years is going to have to involve compromise which means not getting exactly what you want.

                      You want to change that? Then we need the House and filabuster reform, it's that simple

                      •  Pie in the sky will taste great, huh? (0+ / 0-)

                        Of course we're not going to get exactly what we want, nobody is pitching a fit about that, it's about whether President Obama is making credible, good-faith, competent efforts to get as much as possible of what Candidate Obama appeared to be advocating.

                        It would be great to have a Democratic majority in the House, and filibuster reform, and even a supermajority of non-Blue-Dog Democrats in the Senate.  No doubt there would then be other excuses, but sure, it'd be a good thing.

                        In the meantime, it would be nice if having been put in the batter's box, Obama would at least occasionally swing for the fence, rather than giving us one bunt after another.

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