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View Diary: If only armed guards would stop a school massacre ... (323 comments)

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  •  Be warned: The gun-addicts blame those wild shots (17+ / 0-)

    on the increased trigger-pull pressure specified for NYPD handguns. Shooting instructors stepped right up to claim that it's "impossible" to shoot accurately with the NYPD sidearm.
    So the NRA solution is: "More and better guns".

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:01:02 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oops. Responding to the Empire State Bldg shooting (7+ / 0-)

      Have you noticed?
      Politicians who promise LESS government
      only deliver BAD government.

      by jjohnjj on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 01:05:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Grade-A nonsense. Immaterial. (5+ / 0-)

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 02:21:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, better guns AND better training. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Cliss, Otteray Scribe

      http://www.rand.org/...

      Again, a research fail.  Seems to be very common here lately.

    •  Having shot stock "carry" trigger Glocks (0+ / 0-)

      and those with the NYPD-issued connector, accuracy degraded by 300% with the NYPD-specified trigger pull.
      3 inch, 15 shot groups, became 9 inch, 15 shot groups.
      At the range, with no fear, no opposition.

      It's not just me, as I tested this on a group of S.O.G. officers, who are assigned to Embassies, film and tv production, and other non-patrol duties.  It's an on-par with Task Force, step below ESU assignment.

      You'd think accuracy would be important, but it is politics and training hours, not common sense that dictates this choice.

      •  Trigger pressure isn't irrelevant, but... (0+ / 0-)

        ... going up against targets isn't the same as searching a dark alley for a suspect who may or may not be armed.

        The NYPD had reasons to trade accuracy for fewer unintended shootings.

        Those reason raise doubts about the ability of the the armed citizen-vigilante to discriminate targets in a public confrontation.

        Have you noticed?
        Politicians who promise LESS government
        only deliver BAD government.

        by jjohnjj on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 08:34:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  heavy trigger pull is a poor substitute (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ancblu

          for good training on semi-automatics.

          The NYPD chose heavy pulls for two reasons:
          1) an existing force trained on double-action-only revolvers. (also why the S&W 5946 and SIG P-226 in DAO were approved  ~ revolver-like triggers)

          NYPD had, for political and court politics reasons, eliminated the regular DA/SA revolvers to avoid the:

          "he cocked the gun and put it in my ear saying he'd blow my brains out if I didn't tell him where the dope was."
          Your honor, NYPD guns don't "cock" thus the defendant/litigant is lying.

          2) When facing seldom use, officers often will neglect to keep their fingers out of the trigger area, and on the side of the frame.  It's a nano-second to shoot, but the cap gun instinct is "finger ON the trigger".

          I advocated for a 5-6 pound trigger weight, not 12 pounds plus, nor some 2.5 pound target competition weight.

          "Can't be done".
          Reason 1.

          Now that there's almost no one below Captain who started the job with revolver training?  Well... it's "always been that way" will probably suffice for reasoning.

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