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View Diary: The Evening Blues - 12-21-12 (94 comments)

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  •  It's true tho, why are people surprised? (7+ / 0-)

    We were not only warned, we were told there would be tough choices.  What did people think the tough choices would be, on defense, on wars?  
    I remember about half way thru Obama's first term and when I and others threw around the words oligarchy, plutocracy, plutarcy and corporatocracy, not many argued and most seemed to agree.  'We gotta get the money out" they said, "Repeal Citizens United".   Then we had another election and evidently we have to have the same school lessons for this next term.

    "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:34:17 PM PST

    •  i'm not surprised any more... (6+ / 0-)

      though i do occasionally marvel at the mendacity of the politicians and the accommodating nature of the apologists.

      i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

      by joe shikspack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:48:28 PM PST

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      •  “Well, what the hell’s the presidency for?” (6+ / 0-)

        finished the Harpers article

        As Robert Caro’s latest installment of his Lyndon Johnson biography relates, a very regular, organization Democrat like Lyndon Johnson can makes good things happen if he puts his mind to it.

        When in the wake of the Kennedy assassination “wise” advisers told the new president to go slow on civil-rights reform — “that a President shouldn’t spend his time and power on lost causes, no matter how worthy those causes might be” —

        Johnson replied, “Well, what the hell’s the presidency for?”

        Today, we might ask what the hell are liberals for?

        Apparently, not a hell of a lot.

        I am going to have to find a new calling in life.

        "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

        by allenjo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:55:30 PM PST

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    •  At this point (7+ / 0-)

      (on chained CPI anyway) it's obvious to me that some are just doing their duty, throwing out the "it's not a cut!" talking points and Pelosi is using the same ones.   I don't know if they really believe that.  Just doing their duty.  

      You'll find the same people making that assertion and then there will be two, three, sometimes even eight or ten responses with people genuinely trying to explain, giving links and coming up with their own examples to help them understand, etc.  But then you find the same person in some other thread or some other diary just tossing out the "it's not a cut" talking point again to a fresh group of people who I assume they think might be convinced.  

      And these talking points are one of the things that make me think they are going to do this deal.  If this was a bluff or they did not intend to touch Social Security why would they bother to come up with the talking points?  And the other reason obviously is that Obama has been trying to get this Simpson Bowles crap done for a long time now and I think he expected that it wouldn't happen on the first try.  But it never dies, keeps coming back.  Last summer there were Dem muckety mucks out in the media saying that Simpson Bowles was the way to go, paving the way. They knew this was not going to be easy and would come up against fierce opposition.  I believe they have laid out plans and contingency plans and will keep at it until they do it.   The Fix the Debt Wall St and CEO crooks behind it really kind of showed their hand in the past couple of months and now it is much more obvious to more people who is behind it all.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 05:55:13 PM PST

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    •  Two things that seemed clear in the run-up to (4+ / 0-)

      2008 were that candidate Obama supported an over-strong military and that he had neoliberal economic tendencies.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 06:55:09 PM PST

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      •  I definitely picked up on (5+ / 0-)

        the neoliberal economic policies and was really worried about them. But after he got the nomination, he folded some of Clinton's and Edwards' policies into his own and started employing some populist ideas.  I remember after watching the nomination speech, feeling relieved.  

        But wtf right after the election, it was like he just threw off the cloak and it was Clinton all over again.  After all of the animosity between him and Clinton, and his seeming determination to downplay any of Clinton's successes, I was shocked to see the Clinton triangulator neoliberals on the scene.  I guess I was not paying enough attention to the people behind the curtain during his campaign or something.   I was not familiar with most of them.

        And on the wars, I was even more surprised. Yes, he talked about wars and dumb wars, considered Afghanistan not to be one of the dumb wars, and did talk a lot about Pakistan.  But I was blindsided by the warrior president that he became. I am still shocked by it.  Never saw that coming.  And neither did a lot of people, apparently, or he would not have been awarded the Peace prize.  

        During the primaries, he was sold as the peace candidate.  And now that seems so surreal.


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:06:36 PM PST

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        •  yeah, during that primary... (5+ / 0-)

          edwards was the only one of the three that really appealed at all to me since he seemed to be the only one that seemed to know that there are poor people and was concerned about issues of social equity.  i don't recognize someone as a democrat without that focus.  i had sincere doubts about edwards (he seemed less than completely genuine, but what politician does seem genuine?) but at least he talked like a democrat.  obama and clinton both talked like dlc candidates.

          i did think that obama would have been more resistant to starting more wars based upon his campaign rhetoric, but, he parsed pretty well and he is, as he says, a moderate republican.

          as far as i'm concerned the democrats haven't run a democratic candidate for president since mcgovern.

          i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

          by joe shikspack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:16:18 PM PST

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          •  Never thought Edwards was sincere for a minute. (3+ / 0-)

            I believe his "2 Americas" was pandering bs designed to get all the votes from one of them.  But it could just be that I fucking despise most personal injury attorneys.

            "Differences in political opinion are as unavoidable as, to a certain point, they may perhaps be necessary." George Washington

            by civil wingnut on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:40:40 PM PST

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            •  well, my expectations are generally low... (4+ / 0-)

              like i said, i had sincere doubts about whether he was genuine, but he was laying down markers that he could be held to - which is about as good as you can get with a candidate.  i'm glad he didnt' win, since it turned out that he was even more of a schmuck than i could ever have imagined, but i am sad that some of the issues that he was running on went away with him.

              i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

              by joe shikspack on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:07:49 PM PST

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          •  I would have to agree with that (3+ / 0-)

            though I did not understand the wings of the party very well until the past 15 or so years.  But even the moderate Dems who we ran would not have touched Social Security, excepting Clinton.  That's another thing I was not aware of until more recently. I had no idea how much damage he had done until the 2000s.  

            In the tweets that I posted in today's WH diary, there is series by Jeremy Scahill.  He talks about diplomatic security.  He wrote that book on Blackwater, so he knows a lot about private security and Blackwater, etc.  He said that the whole privatization of diplomatic security (and probably more uses than that because he mentions Halliburton) was started under Clinton.  I always thought that was a Bush thing.  

            Which book was it, Naomi Klein? Jane Mayer?  It revealed that we were torturing during the Clinton years too.  When the Arab Spring started and after Mubarak stepped down, Suleiman stepped into his place briefly.  That's when a lot of information about Suleiman was coming out.   They called him the CIA's man in Egypt for rendition and torture.  So I was in the dark about that too.  I am pretty sure that if that was happening, Clinton would have to have been aware of it, or ordering it or at least approving it.  

            http://english.aljazeera.net/...
            http://abcnews.go.com/...

            In exchange, we willfully paid little or no heed to the Egyptian dictatorship's abuse of human rights, despite its role in radicalizing such terrorists as Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's operational and strategic commander. In fact, our strategy of rendition in the wake of 9/11 -- sending terror suspects to other countries for interrogation -- took advantage of Egypt's torture cells. As Jane Mayer writes in her book, The Dark Side, and on The New Yorker magazine's "News Desk" blog, Omar Suleiman, Egypt's new vice president and the former head of the country's general intelligence service, was "the CIA's point man in Egypt for renditions." Former US Ambassador to Egypt Edward S. Walker, Jr., described Suleiman as "very bright, very realistic" and "not squeamish."

            One of those whose rendition Suleiman helped oversee was Al Qaeda suspect Ibn Sheik al-Libi, who told the CIA, according to a bipartisan report from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, that he was locked in a tiny cage for more than three days, then beaten because, at the behest of the United States, the Egyptians wanted him to say that Saddam Hussein was going to give Al Qaeda chemical and biological weapons. "They were killing me," he told journalists Michael Isikoff and David Corn. "I had to tell them something," and so his coerced confession wound up in Colin Powell's now notorious address before the United Nations in February 2003, justifying war against Iraq.

            http://www.pbs.org/...

            Yeah, so the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't know.


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 07:44:36 PM PST

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          •  Bill Richardson looked good for awhile (3+ / 0-)

            What happened with that FBI investigation (if I am remembering correctly) that made him quit running?

            "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

            by allenjo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:07:54 PM PST

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        •  blindsided me too (4+ / 0-)
          But I was blindsided by the warrior president that he became. I am still shocked by it.  Never saw that coming.  And neither did a lot of people, apparently, or he would not have been awarded the Peace prize.

          Kind of makes the Peace prize meaningless, doesn't it?

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand?" David Crosby

          by allenjo on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 08:05:55 PM PST

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        •  I remember feeling that every popular idea Edwards (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joe shikspack, enhydra lutris

          had was one that Obama would be pushing within a week.
          That plus the filibuster promise on FISA gave me a bad feeling, but like many other people that I knew I wanted NO more Clinton crap and I felt at least he wouldn't be a sell out to the 1 % like Bill Clinton,then he gets in office and loads up on Clinton people AND Bush's people.

          without the ants the rainforest dies

          by aliasalias on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:16:40 PM PST

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      •  his acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe shikspack, enhydra lutris

        was the most war promoting speech ever given, even war criminal Henry Kissinger did not speak FOR wars and of course it was all lies from a war monger...BUT at least he didn't openly speak for wars.
         

        without the ants the rainforest dies

        by aliasalias on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 10:08:35 PM PST

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