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  •  To invoke that shopworn phrase (1+ / 0-)
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    NoMoreLies

    It's well past time to think AND act beyond the box. So far no Dem has been willing to do this in any meaningful fashion, as opposed to Repubs, who have been doing this since the 90's (e.g. impeaching a president over nothing for political gain, derailing the very sensible and conservative Clinton health care plan, the Hastert Rule, keeping house votes open for more than 15 minutes, abuse of the filibuster, creating a vast media infrastructure to manipulate the public, Citizens United, etc.), making Repubs, in terms of process, the more "progressive" party, and Dems the more "conservative" party.

    Dems have GOT to stop being pantscrapping afraid of being, and being seen as, too "radical" and "unreasonable", for fear that those mythical centrist voters who just want everyone to hold hands and love each other and get along might not like them. Complete and utter horseshit. Those voters do not exist, and never have. Those votes care about results, not process. NO ONE outside the beltway cares about process, or even civility. Americans care about results, wherever they lie on the ideological spectrum. So if Dems resort to radical and even "mean" methods to get results that the public wants, they will be praised for it, not punished for it. Even a child knows this!

    So I don't know what's taken Dems so long to realize and act on this, and why they STILL don't seem ready and willing to do this. Are they stupid? Weak? Cowardly? Are they just pretending to be these things because they secretly also want the kinds of policies that Repubs claim to want?

    If Dems want to end the GOP's hold on the legislative process then they HAVE to take some "radical" steps and risk being seen as radical and even "mean". E.g. end the filibuster as a means of blocking bills. Do an end run around the GOP house caucus. Run round the clock attack ads and stage many public appearances letting the public know what the GOP is doing, especially in red districts and states. Hold rallies and protests. Send out surrogates with teeth to all the political shows. And so on. Basically, declare war on the GOP, until the GOP either loses, stands down, or is voted out of power.

    If they don't do this, then they're either stupid and cowardly, or they don't really want to defeat the GOP, being the "good cops" in a decades-long game of good cop/bad cop being played on the American people. I.e. Kabuki.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 09:14:57 AM PST

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    •  Ummm... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens
      So if Dems resort to radical and even "mean" methods to get results that the public wants, they will be praised for it, not punished for it. Even a child knows this!
      This is one of the reasons why we have the problem with gun violence in this country.  The abundance of guns and weak guns laws goes without saying, but this attitude being taught to our children is exactly why we got the problem with the extreme GOP in the first place.  I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this statement at all.

      Kovie, you don't have to be 'mean' to be radical.  The MI legislature that blindsided the unions wasn't particularly mean.  They were calculating.

      That is what our side needs to be.  Calculating.  Not mean.  There is a BIG difference here.

      A power grab knows no emotions.  The only ones who emote are the ones without it.

      •  Nonsense (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NoMoreLies

        It's precisely this artificial "civility" we try to impose on situations where it's not appropriate, necessary or useful that has so crippled Dems' ability to get much done. When someone punches you in the face you DO NOT cry and tell them how mean they are. You punch them back and break their noses until they're on the floor crying and begging for mercy. Or did you not hear about the Civil War and the smaller versions of it we've been fighting since?

        And I find it insulting to suggest that the GOP is so radical because Dems are too mean. Where on earth did you come up with this nonsense?

        but this attitude being taught to our children is exactly why we got the problem with the extreme GOP in the first place
        Spare me the Rodney King mantra. I'm not calling for actual violence, obviously, or gratuitous meanness. But a few political elbows thrown here and there will do wonders to tame the GOP into submission, in addition to smart politics.

        There is literally no path to a progressive future without some form of political violence. None. It is a dangerous and self-indulgent illusion to believe otherwise. For us to win, they must endure some inflicted pain.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sat Dec 22, 2012 at 09:47:01 AM PST

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