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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up: The NRA shoots its mouth off edition (175 comments)

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  •  NRA is an easy target, but not the big problem. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin

    Let the NRA blather.  It's their members that matter.

    Yeah, sure, NRA reps say stupid things, represent bad people, and spread a bunch of money around, but they wouldn't have an impact if their message didn't resonate with a lot of voters.

    If there is  a silver lining in the timing and nature of the Aurora and Newtown shootings, and I am loathe to find silver linings in such awful happenings, it is that a lot more people will be open to reasonable restrictions and more willing to see some of the stupid things coming out of NRA mouths as -- ummm --- stupid things.

    I believe that the vast majority of NRA members are responsible people -- that's one reason for joining the NRA.  Most of them will recognize the difference between the things they do and the activities that we seek to prevent.

    There is a real win to be had here...and it sounds like the administration is talking the right talk so far. No notable infringement on the ability to hunt or to defend one's person and home.  Nothing that seems like a second amendment violation.

    Admittedly, the whole "assault weapon" thing is kind of silly, banning guns because they look scary, but limitations on magazine size and ammunition types are real wins.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 07:30:32 AM PST

    •  look at the polls (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, wintergreen8694

      conservatives and hunters support common sense assault weapon control. The NRA speaks for manufacturers, not gun owners.

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      Ninety-two percent of Americans support background checks. Of course, the NRA opposes them.

      The National Rifle Association (NRA) is calling on its membership to help repeal a 1989 law that created the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program (VFTP).   A state-of-the-art database that is second to none in the nation, the VFTP works in conjunction with the FBI’s National Instant Background Checks System (NICS) to check the background of those purchasing firearms in the Commonwealth of Virginia [...] In an August 18 alert to its members, the NRA described the VFTP as “obsolete and unnecessary.” [...]
      This is not the first time the NRA has attempted to undermine the background check system for firearm purchasers.  After the Brady Act was signed in 1994, the NRA funded lawsuits in nine different states that sought to have the law struck down as unconstitutional.  The NRA argued that states could not be compelled to submit records to the federal background check system maintained by the FBI.  The Supreme Court agreed with that principle, but rejected the NRA’s argument that “the whole statute must be voided.”  In large part because of this litigation, millions of records are missing today from NICS that otherwise would be stopping dangerous individuals from buying guns.

      Sixty-three percent of Americans support banning assault rifles, only 32 oppose. That includes a majority of conservatives and gun owners. But of course, the NRA is opposed.
      Sixty-nine percent of Americans support banning internet sales of guns and ammo. The NRA is financially vested in such sales.

      Seventy-six percent of Americans support closing the gun-show loophole, only 19 percent oppose. Seventy-one percent of conservatives agree. Logically, the NRA sits with the 19 percent fringe.

      Only five percent of Americans oppose banning gun ownership for convicted violent felons. Naturally, the NRA sits with that five percent fringe. Heck, they're even okay with potential terrorists buying and owning guns!

      Sixty-four percent of Americans support banning magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, including a majority of conservatives and gun owners. Too bad the NRA opposes that too.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 07:39:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are responsible gun owners (4+ / 0-)

        And there are gun nuts. The former support a ban on certain kinds of weapons that no responsible gun owner needs or should want or have any reason to own and use, and the latter do not. We need to drive a wedge between them.

        It seems to me that the standard is clear. If a firearm or accessory serves none of the nearly universally recognized legitimate uses for firearms, e.g. hunting, self-defense, target shooting, historical collecting, family heirloom, etc., then it should not be legal for private citizens to buy, own or use one.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:07:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What? You can't hunt with a 50 caliber sniper (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kovie

          and armor-piercing rounds?

          You never know when those deer will start using tanks.

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:34:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I love that people (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kovie, dinotrac, annieli

            think it's fun to shoot at exploding targets.

            i promise you none of the deer in town explode when hit with bullets. Nor do the turkeys or coyotes.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:38:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I'm no gun person (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mmacdDE

            But I'm fairly certain that hunting licenses prohibit the use of such weapons and ammo for hunting under any circumstance, perhaps not even on your own land as it's cruel to wildlife (even if you keep them stocked).

            Nor do you need them to do these other things that I listed. Therefore, you don't need them, period. Therefore, they should be illegal for private people, given that they're extremely dangerous and their ONLY purpose is to kill a lot of people fast. Or should cluster bombs be legal too?

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:42:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  It was a joke. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Greg Dworkin

              I'm pretty sure deer will not be taking to tanks any time soon.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:43:48 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  well... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                annieli, dinotrac

                This one's a green beret

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 09:00:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  I realized it was a joke (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dinotrac, mmacdDE

                I was just taking the underlying point further, that guns are very dangerous tools that should only be ownable by individuals for legitimate purposes, and that assault weapons have no legitimate civilian purpose (aside from, perhaps, limited forms of target shooting, but only on licensed gun ranges, to be safely stored on site and never allowed to be taken home).

                "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                by kovie on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 09:40:46 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah. The sniper rifle, by the way, is a more clear (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  kovie

                  case than so-called assault weapons, which turn out to be a very mushy category.

                  The 50 cal sniper rifle to which I referred -- specifically, a Barret M82 (though the M107 probably qualifies) can hit a target a mile away (not a hunting thing as it allows a wounded animal to suffer for a long time before the hunter might reach it) and fire armor-piercing rounds.

                  I'm not even sure the police need that one.

                  I hope that our friends in Congress get a little smarter this time around than they were with the original assault weapons ban.  Instead of a list, perhaps they can define a set of characteristics or capabilities that simply have no place in civilian hands.  Like -- who in the Hell needs a 50 caliber slug?

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 10:53:17 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Which is why I'm not limiting the ban list (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    dinotrac

                    to assault weapons (which is kind of a nebulous term since it could include military-grade shotguns, flashbangs, RPGs, etc.), but to any weapon that has no valid civilian use, , or accessory that can turn a legitimate weapon into one.

                    There's a reason, after all, that sawed off shotguns are illegal.

                    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                    by kovie on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 11:18:07 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  PS I live in Newtown CT (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, annieli, Amber6541

      this is very personal.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 07:40:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Personal or not, it's also politics. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin

        And there's a real win to be had here.

        There's also a chance to dispel notions that the administration is coming for people's guns.  A thoughtful approach in the wake of such horror should calm the nerves of all but the most-rabid lead heads.

        And, as is usual in politics, those whom you cannot influence do not matter except as a source of occasional inconvenience.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 07:57:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dinotrac

          and there's room for that kind of apporach.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 07:59:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thinking further on your connection to this event. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            marsanges, mmacdDE, Noelle in MPLS

            There have been a few comments on this site and elsewhere to the effect that everybody gets excited when white kids get killed, but don't care about all of the children of color getting killed on a daily basis.

            I don't believe for a moment that race has anything to do with the reaction to this event, but it does give one pause.

            As horrible as the Newtown shooting was, it really was an isolated event made remarkable only by the circumstances.

            Last month, there were 192 shootings in Chicago.
            The city is closing in on 500 murders for the year.  A single neighborhood -- the Austin neighborhood -- has suffered nearly 3 dozen of those.

            We have young kids shot on front porches and promising high school students shot on the way home from school or nights out.

            It's good -- very good -- that we try to make mass horrors like Newtown and Aurora harder to do, but it would be so much better to get some honest talk and action on the much larger and deadlier question of Americans killing each other.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:12:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  indeed (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              dinotrac

              kids die in bridgeport and hartford every day.

              the ultimate discussion is about gun violence, but there's no easy fixes to poverty and gangs.

              do what you can, then move on to something else.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sun Dec 23, 2012 at 08:24:19 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Coming for their guns, not necessarily (0+ / 0-)

          But willing to buy their guns, sure. A buy back program needs to part of any serious gun bill.

          We have to get the number of guns down somehow. A buy back will help do that. Especially if the amount is decent.

          And we also gave to make it clear that if you don't sell them to the govt, you're likely to wind up in jail when they're banned.

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