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View Diary: A pacifist on nationalism (67 comments)

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  •  Nationalism as a cure for neoliberalism (2+ / 0-)
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    drnatrl, Justus

    One thing that has been lost as our elites have basically abandoned nationalism is the idea of helping your own people.  The result of this is the whole globalisation of the economy, which has made the global ruling class richer, while putting everyone else more firmly under their control.  I'd propose that if the wealthy became a little more patriotic or nationalist, they would consider not making such huge profits by doing business in such a way that benefits their home country.

    You could also argue that without some form of nationalism that binds together a society, entire social structures will collapse.  We see some of this in our current society, where there is very little concern for the public good, which I believe is the cause of quite a few of our societal problems.

    I'm not calling for blind, unquestioning nationalism, but a loyalty to your nation isn't a bad thing.  If we are to live in a society, which is ideal for humans, we need to look out for each other.  This is why libertarianism is wrong, in my opinion, and why we should find shared purpose and work together.

    •  Communism as a cure (7+ / 0-)

      The Communists didn't have much use for nationalism either.  They wanted worker solidarity across national lines.  They worked to start Communist parties in every country so that every one of them could advance to a more equitable socialism.  In large multi-ethnic Communist countries, all ethnicities were to have equal status.  

      Communists had a way of binding together a society -- working toward a common goal.  It could be defeating the fascists, building up factories and infrastructure, educating the masses, everything was a group effort.  From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.  

      The only thing they had less use for than nationalism was a ruling class made up of the wealthy.  They still couldn't be truly egalitarian and get rid of a ruling class (the Party) entirely, but that class was not fabulously wealthy, earning a thousand times the wages of the common worker.

      Two things that have re-emerged after the fall of Communism in Russia: an obscenely wealthy ruling class, and nationalists exercising all manner of racism against "the other", be they Muslim, Jew, Tatar, or whatever.

      •  Not always (1+ / 0-)
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        The communist party of South Africa almost overthrew the government in the 1922. It was based mostly in the mines and factories in and around Johannesburg, and almost successfully established the "Johannesburg Soviet,"but their slogan was "Workers of the World Unite and Fight for a White South Africa!" Their main grievance was the mine owners decision to allow blacks to take skilled jobs in the mines.

        Of course, later, they changed and became internationalist.

        Then during WW II, the Soviet Union in order to rally the population became explicitly nationalist, fighting the great patriotic war for mother Russia.

        Then they became internationalist again after they had incorporated Eastern Europe into the Soviet block.

        •  You kind of prove my point (1+ / 0-)
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          Nationalism seems to be a convenient foil to pick up and use in these two examples, to be discarded later.  Useful at the moment for the fight against capitalists and fascism, but totally disposable.

        •  once the bolsheviks' govt got taken over (1+ / 0-)
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          by stalin and his proteges, that was the end of communism and the beginning of totalitarianism

          stalin was so much the Leader that he could make a deal with the other Fuhrer, hitler, after he and his minions murdered anyone who'd ever been a true communist, and rest of russia was cowed

          now it seems to be a free-for-all there for anyone with money

          the people who threw off the autocracy may still surprise us though

    •  Not true (1+ / 0-)
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      Fascists always considered socialism the enemy of nationalism.

      ¡Cállate o despertarás la izquierda! - protest sign in Spain

      by gjohnsit on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 06:58:54 AM PST

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    •  The best way to be loyal (2+ / 0-)
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      theboz, isabelle hayes

      to your nation is by speaking up when you think it is going in the wrong direction.  This is like being a good parent. Pacifists that I know are just as patriotic as anyone else.

      War is costly. Peace is priceless!

      by frostbite on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 09:41:59 AM PST

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