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View Diary: I am an ignorant SOB, part 2 (99 comments)

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  •  I think it would (7+ / 0-)

    be useful to turn the question around and ask you to tell us what knowledge in particular do you find that people who comment tend to lack. In my experience gun people seem to invest a lot of importance in arcana that is of only tangential relevence, for instance, wanting to disqualify from debate participation anyone who doesn't know what exactly distinguishes a magazine from a clip. (Not saying you do, only saying this is an attitude that is encountered often.)

    Many years ago in the army I qualified with an M16(I think that was the designation but if not I think most people would not be particularly concerned if it was an M15 unless they were gun sticklers), a 45 pistol, handgun or whatever the proper term is and a carbine. I also had occasion to fire (not in anger) a pedestal mounted machine gun. As I said it was many years ago and I don't remember a lot about the terminology, except to say that the sargeants in basic training frowned on people calling their rifle a gun instead of a weapon* (again obsessive focus on arcana that would matter only to a stickler).

    Anyway I don't think my hands on experience would make me any more qualified to hold an opinion on the societal value of gun rights and controls. The underlying facts are pretty straight forward and one does not need to know the ignition temperature non-sulphur based gunpowder in order to appreciate the societal impact of a rapid firing, easily reloadable weapon whether it is naively called an automatic rifle, an assault weapon, a semi-automatic weapon or a machine gun.

    *Any recruit who made the mistake of calling it a gun had to suffer the indignity of parading around the barracks area with his rifle held aloft, grabbing his crotch and saying in a loud voice "This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for fighting, the other's for fun".

    The world is a den of thieves and night is falling. -Ingmar Bergman

    by Pirogue on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 08:48:00 AM PST

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    •  Sorry Ban Nock (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brahman Colorado, ER Doc

      I posted this as a reply to your comment by mistake. It was meant to be addressed to the original diary. I will repost it as such. Wish we could take mistakes down, but alas.

      The world is a den of thieves and night is falling. -Ingmar Bergman

      by Pirogue on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 08:49:50 AM PST

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    •  Some specifics (7+ / 0-)

      Pirogue, there are people here at DKos who have wanted to outright ban the RKBA group, people who want to ban all new gun sales, confiscate all guns, or have specific ideas on guns based on very minimal knowledge of guns. I think there was a recent post saying all rifles should only be allowed a three-round internal magazine because that is all a hunter should ever need. Did that poster bother to ask any hunters before saying that? If not, they are someone who, if they read this diary, should be honest enough to answer the poll as item 1. Personally, if I need more than one shot I should not have taken the shot in the first place, but if I lived in Alaska and had to deal with polar bears, I might be a lot happier with more shots or more muzzle energy than I use here in the lower 48.

      There is no one specific item of knowledge nor ownership of any particular gun that makes one qualified to speak with credibility on the issue. It is a matter of attitude, of wanting to know, regardless of whether or not knowing changes your beliefs on the issue. Do you, the reader, want to speak with the same knowledge on this issue as Todd Akin has when he speaks about abortion?

      If not, then please do not get bent out of shape when I imply that you should work to educate yourself on the issue before speaking out on it.

      •  I re-edited a book on firearms and archery that (8+ / 0-)

        dealt with the knowledge of a very specific item that dealt with the mental mechanics of operating firearms. The FBI, police departments, professional competitors and of course joe blows throughout the world bought the book. The FBI would buy 200 every year for training their new recruits.     ( It was exciting at $19.95 each to get an order every year from the FBI for 4K). They are part of the elite of the elite, so I was honored to have edited the book at the time.

        The author had never shot a firearm is his life.

        The premise was simple. If you own a gun, you should imagine yourself consciously through pre-thinking every split second scenario of thinking, visualization and practice of achieving your goal of markmanship.The section on taking a life was sobering to say the least.

        I do not own guns anymore. I have been considering a rifle for my ranch in southern Colorado because I enjoy elk, pheasant, duck, turkey and deer as I also am a great wild game cook. I have had way to many unfortunate experiences around hunters though and that is why I do not hunt anymore. I'm scared of hunters. ( they don't get a free pass either IMHO)

        Stricter hunter safety and comprehensive firearms certification is the answer to gun control.

        After all is said and done, a lot more is said than done.

        by Brahman Colorado on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 09:41:35 AM PST

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      •  I think it is unfair (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber, poco

        for you to characterize anyone as taking the position that they should be arguing from ingnorance. To the contrary, I think the more information the better, but I do not need a degree in animal husbandry to have an opinion about the morality of factory farming. That would be my point.

        As a matter of fact my ideal gun law would be one that was pretty close to the one you decry. I might be happy to allow a few more bullets (rounds, cartriges?) in the internal magazine for semi-automatic firing, but once that is expended hand reloading of each individual round would be necessary. (With such a firearm a perp would not be able to continuiously reload large capacity magazines in a matter of seconds and the damage would be much more easily contained.) Now I am sure that any number of hunters would find that inconvenient, but I myself have read in serveral places since the Sandy Hook tragedy where hunters have said that this would be adequate for the hunting experience.  But my chief concern is the protection of innocent lives, especially children in urban settings who find themselves caught in firefights or children otherwise in the crosshairs of a lunatic shooter. If the recreational satisfaction of hunters is compromised to some degree, so be it. Now what I have given is a broad outline of what I consider ideal. I could well be that exceptions need to be made for those who will be going against polar bears and such. That can be discussed with whatever other exception need to be worked out.  But what my question was intended to find out is what particular knowledge do you suspect I lack that disqualifies me from espousing such an opinion on the broad countours of a gun policy. Of course I am not an expert and would be open to hearing reasons why this plan is flawed, but until I hear counter arguments I don't think it is rash of me to adopt this opinion.

        The world is a den of thieves and night is falling. -Ingmar Bergman

        by Pirogue on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 01:34:58 PM PST

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