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View Diary: I am an ignorant SOB, part 2 (99 comments)

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  •  Owning a gun has nothing to do with national (15+ / 0-)

    gun policy. Nothing. And what your poll is about, in my opinion, is passive-aggressively calling anyone who has an opinion on national gun policy, and who is not themselves a gun enthusiast, ignorant SOBs. That's what you poll is really about.

    •  That is your opinion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happy camper, PavePusher, kestrel9000

      And my diary is there for anyone to read. If you care to quote the parts that show where I say you have to be a gun enthusiast to make informed arguments about national gun policy, then it will cease to be your opinion and will become your argument.

    •  Disagree. (0+ / 0-)

      I don't want gun policy set by someone who doesn't know the difference between a bullet and a cartridge, a clip and a magazine, and an assault rifle and an assault weapon.

      •  so as a pedestrian I don't get a say in (6+ / 0-)

        how fast people drive down my street..??

        who gets to sit at the table..??..I used to work at a gun range and own guns...but no longer do...can I send an email to my congressperson with my opinion..??..should it just be ignored..??

        what about victims of gun violence...the ER doctors that deal with the carnage...do they get a voice..??

        I hope the politicians listen to a wide range of voices...and make an honest effort to create a reasonable gun policy.


        We are not broke, we are being robbed.

        by Glen The Plumber on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 12:43:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I want to make sure (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          gun owners are not excluded from the discussion. Which, based on postings I've sen on Daily Kos, some seem eager to do.

          •  If gun owners want to be involved in writing (4+ / 0-)

            reasonable gun control legislation, they have to get away from refusing to allow any reasonable gun control legislation.
            And I would suggest that legitimate gun owners have nothing to fear from registration of firearms and licensing of firearms owners.
            But so far, very few gun owners are stepping up. When they DO speak up, it's stuff like this diary which basically tries to tell the non-gun-owners that we have no standing to regulate guns.
            I keep hearing about the "responsible gun owners" and I've met a few of them, but I have also met a large number of irresponsible gun owners, people I wouldn't trust with a butterknife, let alone an AK. I lived in a building in LA that became a crack house, over run by three distinct waves of gangsters. Not one of those guys would have been so tough if not for the firearms.
            I live now in a different gun culture and some of those vaunted, responsible hunters are slobs about their guns, fully loaded, hanging in the back window of their pickup truck, unlocked in the shopping center parking lot, loaded guns where their kids can reach them, "Empty" guns that "go off" "by themselves", dipsh!t playing quick-draw-McGraw, blew a hole on his leg, a bachelor party here went really bad a few years back.... These people have so much familiarity with the subject that they are dangerous to themselves and anyone that gets near them.
            Oh, did I mention that alcohol is a major component of gun culture around here?
            Where are the responsible gun owners policing their own?
            NO WHERE!
            It's a free for all.
            Not your responsibility, right?
            Well if y'all don't step up, someone else will.

            If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

            by CwV on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 01:35:44 PM PST

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            •  Gun owners have EVERYTHING to fear ... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber, kestrel9000

              from registration.  They know that one day the stars could align such that the powers that be will deem all guns be confiscated.  It's happened many times in history, sometimes with catastrophic consequences.  

              The flip side of the coin is that yes, registration could help implicate criminals.  It already does, in some cases.  

              What is the happy medium?  There doesn't appear to be one.

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 02:02:40 PM PST

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              •  considering that the conservative estimate (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                cama2008, poco, Glen The Plumber

                is 88 guns per 100 people in this country, just from a logistical standpoint, the idea that anyone is going to "confiscate the guns" is pure fantasy.
                There is no possible alignment of the stars that will change that and whoever has you thinking that way is conning you.
                The only people who have reason to fear registration and licensing are people that want to avoid responsibility for their bullets.
                And in the process, they enable the criminal class.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 02:27:50 PM PST

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                •  But don't you know there was once (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poco, Glen The Plumber

                  A weird traffic law in one state a long time ago so all traffic laws are bad?  And also at some point in the past guns were confiscated so it means that it will definitely happen again, the stars know more than we do, we have to shut up and watch the stars, there's just nothing else to be done here.

                •  There are MANY here at Dkos, ... (0+ / 0-)

                  and elsewhere in the country, who would LOVE to see ALL guns confiscated ... from the citizenry, the police, the military and any other group I'm forgetting to include.  I'm not saying such an effort would even be remotely successful, but many would surely love to try.  And they wouldn't hesitate to jail anyone they thought was withholding, while they were at it.

                  Someone ought to post a poll on that question.

                  "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

                  by Neuroptimalian on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 06:53:27 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •   wait wait wait (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Melanie in IA, Glen The Plumber

                According to Shamash, you're not an expert in this area, were your own guns confiscated?  Or are you just getting your data about the consequences by reading about it?  Because, you know, not good enough.  And, can you tell us, from what university did you acquire your astrology degree?

            •  Just like companies are expected to self regulate (4+ / 0-)

              Please step up and do it already.

              But Shamash is trying to shut down every avenue and conversation, can't register, can't tax the gun manufacturers, if you don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip, well then you can't talk about ammunition either.  Very clever, seems like they're hard at work here making sure nothing changes and they want their seat at the table to make sure of that.

            •  Becoming informed (0+ / 0-)

              CwV, for your own edification, look over say the past century of federal gun law. With exception of the expiration of the Clinton Assault Weapon ban, what reduction in federal oversight has there been?

              Things your grandfather or great-grandfather could have bought through the mail with cash (like dynamite and Tommy Guns) are now so restricted as to be inaccessible to the average person. For instance, the holder of a Class 3 license (fully automatic weapons) pretty much gives up the 4th amendment. The government can enter that person's house or wherever the weapon is listed as stored without a warrant or prior notice, just to make sure the weapon is there and properly secured. Can you think of any other issue for which you as a liberal say "No knock warrantless searches for the home or buisness of someone not even accused of a crime? Great idea!"

              Gun laws have generally tightened, not loosened. You and many others may think this is a good thing. But this is a case where terminology and language does matter.

              If you are asking gun owners to compromise on the issue, then compromise implies that you in turn are giving up ground on the issue somewhere, offering a relaxation in one aspect of regulation or law in exchange for a tightening elsewhere.

              Demanding that gun owners (47% of US households) give up something in exchange for a unenforceable promise that you won't make them give up more later is, ethically speaking, no better than the Republicans demanding Obama give them a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts in exchange for the nebuous promise that they will not hold the economy hostage later.

              That is not the language or tactics of compromise, it is the language and tactics of demand and capitulation. I think that especially among conservatives, it generates a kickback of equal stubbornness. If there was a history of actual compromise on the issue, adoption of measures that respected privacy and individual rights while improving public safety, then gun owners of any political persuasion would probably be less inclined to think that every new law or regulation was something they should be worried about.

              •  I am not demanding anything (0+ / 0-)

                and I don't appreciate being yelled at by a fanatic that's looking for a fight.
                Do you act this way when you don't have a gun in your pocket?
                Is this why you feel so threatened that you must be armed? Because you try to browbeat people that don't agree with you?
                Because this is the kind of behavior that gets people beat up in the bars around my neck of the woods. Don't be a dick.
                Anyway, thanks for the demonstration of why RBKA is SOOO popular at DKos, keep it up, maybe you can make it unanimous.

                If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                by CwV on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 05:52:18 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  Traffic laws (0+ / 0-)

          Since you brough the subject up, I think the oft-quoted law from the early auto era in Pennsylvania is relevant:

          “any motorist driving along a country road at night must stop every mile and send up a rocket signal, wait 10 minutes for the road to be cleared of livestock, and continue.”

          Glen, do you think this law was made by people who were well-informed about cars? How do think people who were well-informed about cars felt about it?

      •  And I don't care (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber

        whether you want it or not. You don't get to decide.

        We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

        by denise b on Mon Dec 24, 2012 at 02:50:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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