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View Diary: Town's Gun Owners Outraged That Everyone In Town Knows They May Own A Gun (356 comments)

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    •  How Many People Have Died Over Gold? Ask The Aztec (8+ / 0-)

      Oh wait, they're all dead

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 09:47:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A motive is not a means. (10+ / 0-)

        In Roviet Union, money spends YOU.

        by Troubadour on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 10:06:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Neither is a means a motive nt (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonV, lostboyjim, SixSixSix, FrankRose

          There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

          by bernardpliers on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 10:17:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually, sometimes it is. (6+ / 0-)

            Power wants to be used.

            In Roviet Union, money spends YOU.

            by Troubadour on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 10:18:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Definitely Some Folks Here Looking For Power (6+ / 0-)

              ...over their neioghbors.  Check the guy down thread who wants to decide who he can purge from the neighborhood.

              There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

              by bernardpliers on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 10:42:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Major false equivalency. (10+ / 0-)

                One is a person who takes upon themselves the power to kill any number of others with the twitch of a finger.  The other is someone who speaks a name in public, potentially opening the person whose name is spoken to ridicule and ostracism.  Do you honestly see a moral equivalency, let alone put the balance of power-seeking on the latter?

                In Roviet Union, money spends YOU.

                by Troubadour on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 12:46:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  False Equivalency? How About 2 + 2 = 5 ? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FrankRose

                  Oh dear, oh dear.  People still claim power over others based on the alleged purity of their motives?  Well that's a plunge down the rabbit hole of pure evil.  

                  Here, let's look at "1984."  Will Winston Smith be tortured death because he refuses to acknowledge that 2+2=5 ?  No guns involved, and people are killed for no other reason purely gratuitous and trivial exercise of power. In real life, how many people are murdered or fired each year because they did not "respect" someone enough? Thousands and thousands. Not because they weren't cheerfully obedient, but because they did not suffer enough in the act of obeying.

                  The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently....Power is
                  not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution.

                  The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?'......'We are the priests of power,' he said. 'God is power. But at present
                  power is only a word so far as you are concerned. It is time for you to gather some idea of what power means. The first thing you must realize is that power is collective. The individual only has power in so far as he ceases to be an individual.

                  'The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.' He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: 'How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?'

                  Winston thought. 'By making him suffer,' he said.

                  'Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his wn? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of
                  your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating?

                  "Evil" is not something that can be isolated by projecting it onto other people and singling them out as "all bad."  Indeed the use of "all bad" views of others in "object relationships" (personal relations) is how violent psychopaths see the world.

                  There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

                  by bernardpliers on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 01:31:04 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Your response is incoherent. (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wader, alain2112, Yamara, CA wildwoman

                    Do you or do you not recognize that a person who owns firearms is taking far, FAR greater power over others upon themselves than someone who merely reveals potentially sensitive information?

                    In Roviet Union, money spends YOU.

                    by Troubadour on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 05:21:42 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Book Quote Was To Prevent Feigned Ignorance :-) (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      FrankRose

                      You made a comment on the nature of power, and "1984" is an entire book about the sadistic use of power. And nobody in the book has a gun.  You can claim you don't understand what it means, but nothing you can say makes it "incoherent."

                      Or to put it another way, there are plenty of guys who beat their wives (and vice versa) without owning a gun, and plenty of gun owners that don't beat their wives.

                      When people argue that they should have power over others because of their "niceness," that is the languange of the junkie, the grifter, the thief, and, not infrequntly, the violent abuser.   That is the sign of an organization that has passed the point of return on the path to disintegration.

                      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

                      by bernardpliers on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 07:30:00 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Someone wise once said, (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BlackSheep1, wader, Oh Mary Oh, Yamara

              if you have knives and forks you want to cut something. ?Bob Dylan maybe.

              The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.― Neil deGrasse Tyson

              by maggiejean on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 01:05:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  It certainly helps set the stage for... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      notrouble, wader

      lots of death and destruction.  Most things of value have that inherent property.

      "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war." -9.75, -8.41

      by RonV on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 09:58:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Mmm-hmmm. (0+ / 0-)

      The government doesn't require me to register my wedding ring.

      There is likely a reason for that, eh?

      © grover


      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

      by grover on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 11:10:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't you need a piece of paper to get married? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splashy

        If at first you don't succeed, vote Teapublicans out and try again. You have to be persistent if you want anything out of life.

        by Final Frame on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 11:46:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Getting married does NOT require a ring (0+ / 0-)

          Much less a gold one.

          Sorry. Your logic fails.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 07:14:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  But it does require a piece of paper (0+ / 0-)

            And can be trumpeted in a local newspaper.

            Don't get snippy with me because you fumbled into something.

            If at first you don't succeed, vote Teapublicans out and try again. You have to be persistent if you want anything out of life.

            by Final Frame on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 08:00:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not snippy. I don't get your point. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NYFM

              The original point that I responded to was that "good jewelry doesn't kill people."  I agreed, that's why the government doesn't require me to register my wedding ring.

              You came in and said that but I do have to go through the government to get married.

              Yes, I said, but being married does not require and does not imply the existence of a gold ring.

              Now you say I'm getting snippy?

              Huh?

              And wedding announcements have to be paid for in pretty much every town and city in America unless you're a local or national celebrity. Those aren't done for free.

              Meh, I'm done here.  You have an axe to grind and assume I have some sort of massive agenda. Look down thread. Another guy made a snotty comment to me "fuck you and your little guns too."

              Apparently I'm on the extremes of the same issue in the same thread. Hysterical.

               I was just trying to have a coversation.  These guns threads are too much. I'm out.

              Merry Christmas.

              © grover


              So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

              by grover on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 11:29:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  look at it the other way (7+ / 0-)

      The addresses of people who do not have a gun permit would be of interest to some criminals.

      Then there's the direct marketing aspect. I'm sure the bullet sellers would love to have maps like this for the entire nation.

      All things in the sky are pure to those who have no telescopes. – Charles Fort

      by subtropolis on Tue Dec 25, 2012 at 12:40:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No but people like to steal it. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FrankRose, rockhound

      You are putting everyone in that household at risk

      for burglary or worse home invasion.

      Same thing if you publish the names and addresses of people who have a lot of pain pills or other popular prescription drugs in their house, esp those that have known high street value.

      One adult in that house may have guns, and know how to use them, but that's no guarantee the rest of the adults do. You could bet setting the Mrs up or the kids up to be punished because you don't care for it that one of the adults has guns.

      Is that really the game you want to play?

      Not to mention, these aren't sex offenders. These are law abiding citizens. You disagree with their ownership of guns, fine. But why are you punishing people you have never met for crimes that they haven't and probably never will commit?

      What will this do but make the conversation degenerate further, without creating a viable solution to real problems?

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