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View Diary: Is David Gregory in trouble over 30 round magzine? (84 comments)

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  •  Was it actually loaded? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, billmosby, edwardssl

    No idea if it's possible to remove bullets but maybe it was empty.

    Ron Reagan: "Sarah Palin's constituency are people who wear red rubber noses and bells on their shoes."

    by AnnetteK on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:06:58 AM PST

    •  Of course they can be unloaded / empty . (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK, rb608, Massconfusion

      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

      by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:18:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, sorry, (0+ / 0-)

        I thought they must be able to be but I'm a complete UK numpty when it comes to guns.

        Ron Reagan: "Sarah Palin's constituency are people who wear red rubber noses and bells on their shoes."

        by AnnetteK on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:20:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll get you "up to speed" (3+ / 0-)

          A clip is a reloadable holder for rounds .
          A person loads a clips with rounds and then loads the clip into the gun .
          A person can own / use multiple clips .
          When a clip of rounds is used up , the clip is pulled from the gun and another clip full of rounds can be installed into the gun . Then the gun can be used to shoot up the number of rounds in the clip .
          In war , getting multiple clips ready before a fight allows a soldier to reload their gun quickly .

          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

          by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:28:26 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Technically speaking, a clip is used to load... (5+ / 0-)

            ...an internal magazine. A detachable, external magazine is not the same as a clip. But the words have been merged over the years in commonspeak.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:42:22 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  M1 Garand clip . (0+ / 0-)

              The M1 Garand has no magazine .

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:58:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The maker disagrees with you: (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                stevej, BlackSheep1
                Note under Caution: "Before pushing the clip down into the magazine, you should..."

                Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:11:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  A magazine is a holder for rounds . (0+ / 0-)

                  Try loading rounds into a M1 Garand without the clip .

                  And the manufacturer does not disagree with me .
                  If you look at a parts list for the M1 Garand
                  you will find no parts listed as a magazine .

                  http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/...

                  http://www.merriam-webster.com/...

                  a : a holder in or on a gun for cartridges to be fed into the gun chamber
                  The M1 Garand sans clip has no ability to hold rounds , it has no magazine . A magazine does not hold onto a magazine or the pistol grip of a 1911 would be a magazine that a magazine fits into .

                  You gave no link .
                  What you found was someone misusing the word magazine .

                  https://docs.google.com/...

                  "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                  by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:33:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I understand the difference... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BlackSheep1

                    ...between a clip and a magazine. The M-1 Garand uses an en-bloc clip system. Yes, you can't use the gun without it. But the clip nevertheless fits into an internal magazine built into the receiver. It's not just an empty space in the rifle.

                    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:48:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You say its a magazine , it is not . (0+ / 0-)

                      A magazine holds rounds . Nothing but the clip on the M1 Garand holds rounds .
                      The empty space does not hold rounds ,
                      the 1911 pistol grip is empty space and does not hold rounds .
                      The place where the clip goes in the M1 Garand is empty space just as the space in a 1911 pistol grip is empty space until ...

                      I'll go on using the word clip correctly .
                      If John C Garand calls its a clip , I'll be fine with calling it a clip .

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:42:10 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  The 1911 pistol grip IS empty space... (0+ / 0-)

                        ...but the M1 Garand receiver where the clip goes is NOT empty space. The 1911's magazine provides all the necessary working parts to keep the cartridges cycling. On the other hand, without the working parts in the M1 receiver interacting with the en bloc clip, that fine piece of military hardware is a good club or bayonet platform and nothing more. Those parts are typically found in detachable magazines with the exception of gravity-fed magazines, which aren't that common. I am scarcely the only person referring to the Garand as having an internal magazine.

                        We obviously aren't going to agree on nomenclature here. So I'll leave the final word to you.

                        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                        by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 02:44:19 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                          but the M1 Garand receiver where the clip goes is NOT empty space.
                          Its as empty or unempty as the 1911 pistol grip . The working parts are near to the empty space where the clip in the M1 Garand and the magazine in the 1911 are installed .
                          The working parts of the M1 Garand and the 1911 grab the round from the clip or magazine , installs it , fires it and removes it .
                          The clip in the M1 Garand and the magazine in the 1911 do basically the same job , they hold the rounds until the mechanism takes the rounds .

                          http://www.remington.com/...

                          Model 597™ 30-Round Magazine Clip
                          http://www.remington.com/...
                          Model 504™ Magazine Clip
                          http://www.remington.com/...
                          Model 597™ Magazine Clip
                          http://www.remington.com/...
                          Model 700™ BDL Magazine Clip
                          then why does Savage and Remington as late as just a couple of years ago refer to their .22 rifles that use a box appendage to hold ready ammunition as Clip Fed.

                          Its semantics. Plain and simple.

                          I have US government packaging for 1911 magazines, which refers to Clips, ammunition, type 1911a1. caliber .45

                          It was never an issue until the internet and typewriter experts started to have a coniption.

                          with the exception of gravity-fed magazines, which aren't that common.
                          Not being common doesn't change the fact that the magazine does not have a follower in some gravity magazines . So the rules about what is a clip and what is a magazine based on a follower , does not work .
                          The 1911's magazine provides all the necessary working parts to keep the cartridges cycling.
                          That's not even close to true . The only moving part in the 1911 magazine , if you can call it that , is the follower/spring . All the other moving parts to keep the cartridges cycling are outside the magazine .
                          Ejector , Extractor , Mainspring , Slide etc etc etc
                          I am scarcely the only person referring to the Garand as having an internal magazine.
                          I never said you were alone in this .

                          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                          by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 05:55:21 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, the stripper clips on the Gerand used to... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      BlackSheep1

                      spring out of the rifle and make a distinctive sound when the soldier had exhausted all his ammo. Clever Dog faces would keep a clip in reserve and throw it on the ground before that had finished firing... German would pop up thinking the GI was out and Gi would shoot German. The Enfield used similar stripper clips.

                      It generally drives gun people nuts when someone calls a magazine a clip but, like it or not, they have become interchangable in common parlaence...

                  •  One way to distinguish a clip from a magazine... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BlackSheep1

                    ...is that a clip has no follower and a magazine does. The follower on an M1 Garand is in the receiver.

                    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:14:53 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

    •  No idea? Use google. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK, myboo

      Never mind, here: A magazine is something you put ammunition into, then put the magazine into the gun. They are reused potentially thousands of times.

      Bans typically apply to guns or their related hardware, irrespective of whether they are loaded or not.

      So even empty it would be a problem.

      Depending on the law, you could perhaps partially disassemble it by taking the follower and spring out of it, leave them somewhere else, and be ok. Just depends on how the law is written.

      Moderation in most things.

      by billmosby on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:19:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A removable magazine . (0+ / 0-)

        A built in magazine is different .

        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

        by indycam on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 11:36:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  well, really, most of 'em are different (0+ / 0-)

          in some way or other. On my SKS, you can hit a catch and swing the built-in magazine down to unload it all at once. Not that that's unique, I suppose, but at the moment I couldn't say what other built-in magazines work that way.

          As far as David Gregory's case is concerned, I'm guessing that if he had a weapon with a large non-removable magazine he'd be in more hot water. I don't know of any weapons with built-ins large than 10 rounds off hand.

          Not sure what other differences might make a difference. All magazines are loadable and unloadable...

          Moderation in most things.

          by billmosby on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:06:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  No legal difference (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK

      n/t

    •  No reason a UK person should be familiar (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AnnetteK, BlackSheep1

      Think of a magazine as a Pez dispenser for cartridges.

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