Skip to main content

View Diary: Sen. Boxer meeting NRA (more than) halfway? (32 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Most of what you or the Senator propose (0+ / 0-)

    would require the repeal of the Second Amendment.  Go back and read the Heller case to educate yourself on the history of the RKBA.   You might not like the result in that case, but they did not make up the history.  

    Lots of schools (including the private schools that a lot of "inside the Beltway" families send their children to) already have armed security on campus.   Say what you will, the only way to stop someone with a gun once they get into a school and start shooting is with a gun.  

    We need to start with closing the gun show loophole and requiring a background check and licensing for every firearm.  It will take an act of Congress to modify HIPAA before we can "keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill".   You don't even have to disclose that you are treating for depression to get a National Security clearance, let alone a gun.  

    PS:  None of the weapons used in the recent mass shootings were "concealed".  

    Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

    by SpamNunn on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 12:43:56 PM PST

    •  Nonsense... and non-factual as well (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby, Nada Lemming
      Say what you will, the only way to stop someone with a gun once they get into a school and start shooting is with a gun.  
      History shows that the way to stop someone is to have the police arrive or to wait until the shooter has to reload then you tackle him.

      And yes you do have to disclose if you are or have been treated for mental health issues when filling out forms for national security clearance. The details might not be required but you do have to report it and they do talk with the health provider you list as having treated you.

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:02:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  During my 30 years with a Q clearance, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Andrew C White, A Siegel

        I had to take the MMPI about 6 times. I had it dang near memorized long before my retirement.

        I also got into trouble when I let my quack doctor prescribe Ritalin for me, took it for a week and not liking the effects, forgot all about it. I also forgot I was supposed to report it until something jogged my memory a couple of years later that I had taken it for a week. I reported it then and had to go through a questioning session; in former times they would have had me hooked up to a polygraph but by then it had been pretty much exposed as quackery itself.

        Waiting for a reload and tackling is a good idea, although as in Newtown people will pay a terrible price for it a lot of the time. Shooting back usually isn't a good idea when there are enough targets around for a mass shooting.

        I wonder if school staff might someday take to wearing kevlar or something even if the probability of use is low and the probability of discomfort high.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:12:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't have to do MMPI (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          billmosby

          but even at my lower level clearance I had to list whether I had ever been treated for mental or behavioral health issues, by who, and sign a release for the investigator to talk to any providers.

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:20:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  So you say. (0+ / 0-)

        You can tackle them.   I'll trust the armed security guard.  He doesn't have to wait until the perpetrator stops to reload.  I'll bet the guards at the Sidwell Friends School wouldn't wait.  

        Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

        by SpamNunn on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:22:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  PS: This is what I was talking about: (0+ / 0-)

          The Standard Form 86, Questionnaire for National Security Positions, used to ask the applicant to acknowledge mental health care in the past seven years. It did not ask for treatment details if the care involved only marital, family, or grief counseling, not related to violence by the applicant, unless the treatment was court-ordered.

          As of April 18, 2008, applicants no longer had to acknowledge care under the same conditions

          Source:

          http://www.defense.gov/...

          Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

          by SpamNunn on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:31:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Same form I'm talking about (0+ / 0-)

            having recently gone through it... yes, you do have to answer questions though not detailed. And yes they do talk with your treatment providers and no you don't get clearance if you lie and leave the information off the form.

            The guards at Sidwell are protecting the Presidents children. You are comparing apples and atom bombs not even oranges.

            And yeah, the Chicago city cop at my high school would have done his job and shot too... if he ever got the chance... but I'm talking about reality and history not theory and gun crazy macho malarkey.

            The shooters in these cases have been taken down by cops, taken themselves down when the cops showed up, or have been tackled by bystanders when they stopped to reload. So your statement that guns are the only way is the nonsense I called it to begin with.

            Which is all besides the point anyhow as the best way is to limit their access to firearms in the first place and provide better health care to our populace to begin with.

            "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

            by Andrew C White on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 02:00:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There were guards at Sidwell Friends before (0+ / 0-)

              Chelsea Clinton or the Obamas, so you are wrong.   Many public high schools in NJ have armed police present.   Armed guards are the best and most effective way, not the only way.  Other ways work, more people get killed, though.  

              There will never be a day in this country when the rights of the populace to keep and bear arms is limited to the extend that you might prefer.  Ever.  

              Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

              by SpamNunn on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 03:12:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You might start by stopping making bad assumptions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Nada Lemming

                about what I would prefer.

                You might also try defending your statements by staying in topic and either admitting your original statement was wrong or not what you meant. Your defenses so far do not actually defend your original statement. Meanwhile I've actually backed up my assertion that it was nonsense and you haven't said a thing to knock that down either. So your statement remains nonsense... and now backed up by more nonsense.

                "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

                by Andrew C White on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 05:25:16 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  I do appreciate Justice Berger (0+ / 0-)
      The Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.  The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.
      Navy Vet Terp's discussion merits a read.

      RE schools, what is impressive is how the 'lock down' did work in terms reducing how many children were expose to the gunfire.

      THe question is 'only way way to stop some with a gun once they get into a school and start shooting with a gun' really is why we have allowed ourselves to get into the situation where it is easier to own a gun than to get a license to cut hair, adopt a dog from a shelter, ...

      And, I agree with your "start" sentence as a reasonable place to begin.

      NOTE:  Quite recently, in a dinner mtng, I was asked my impression of what to re Newtown by someone that I know is an avid hunter with 10+ weapons.  I started rather cautious and it took about 3 minutes to discover that we were in near total accord about need for licensing, training, and restrictions as to the type/nature of weapons available for purchase. Honestly, the two of us were in quick agreement to something that I expect 80+% of Americans would agree to as acceptable compromise.

      Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

      by A Siegel on Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 01:51:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site