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View Diary: There will be no default on the national debt (113 comments)

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  •  Politics depends partly on whether (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, salamanderempress

    there is consensus that a given arrangement is in effect or not. If both sides agree that there is a cliff, then there is a cliff. Sure, there isn't a physical cliff, but there is agreement, for good or ill, that a cliff exists. Ergo, there is a cliff. Why there is a cliff is open to discussion, but there's no denying that a cliff was created by the White House and the Congress, and that both sides accept that it is, and will be, in effect until something is done to change it.

    I should also point out that, on a similar basis, the President agrees that the 14th Amendment does not apply to the debt ceiling. Not to say that it couldn't be argued  to apply, but no one is making that argument outside of the government. On that basis, the 14th Amendment is irrelevant currently.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:54:29 AM PST

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    •  And the emperor's clothes look mighty fine. (1+ / 0-)
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      lunachickie

      Both parties say so, and so it is!

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:59:38 AM PST

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      •  That's politics for ya! (0+ / 0-)

        For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

        by Anne Elk on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:00:48 AM PST

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        •  We need more loudmouth innocent children (2+ / 0-)
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          lunachickie, JesseCW

          Don't give up on objective reality.

          History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed forever, it may be thrown back for centuries. [...] Persecution has always succeeded, save where the heretics were too strong a party to be effectually persecuted. [...] The real advantage which truth has, consists in this, that when an opinion is true, it may be extinguished once, twice, or many times, but in the course of ages there will generally be found persons to rediscover it, until some one of its reappearances falls on a time when from favourable circumstances it escapes persecution until it has made such head as to withstand all subsequent attempts to suppress it.

          - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

          Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

          by Simplify on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:07:38 AM PST

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          •  That's the point: it is objective reality. (0+ / 0-)

            There is a cliff precisely because both sides agree that there is a cliff. It came into being because there was an agreement to create one. Going around saying that it's a figment of someone's imagination is about the same as saying that announcing your engagement to be married is non-factual because it's just an agreement between two parties. There is no object you can point to called "engagement"! I find this constant raging against the financial cliff's existence to be somewhat quixotic.

            For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

            by Anne Elk on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 02:08:21 PM PST

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        •  You'll have to (0+ / 0-)

          excuse some of us who find flippancy to this end to be a very large part of what's wrong with our party.

          That's politics for ya!

          It is time to #Occupy Media.

          by lunachickie on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 01:41:27 PM PST

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          •  I feel suitably chastened. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Larsstephens

            Can you ever forgive me?

            For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

            by Anne Elk on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 02:04:13 PM PST

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