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View Diary: Why Do Fundy Christians Love the Rich and Hate the Poor? (324 comments)

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  •  Not true according to Matthew 16:13-27 (7+ / 0-)

    Jesus chose Peter as the rock upon which to build the church after Peter identifies him as the Messiah. Jesus also tells Peter that he will rise from the dead, which is the essence of the post-Calvary "Christian" idea you reference. Paul is the traveling salesman of the early church, not the inventor.

    I never liked you and I always will.

    by Ray Blake on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 05:58:23 PM PST

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    •  Paul takes the message to the Gentiles (4+ / 0-)

      I am not sure if I agree with the take on Paul as travelling salesman.  Biblically, it is clear Paul is supposed to take the Gospel message to the Gentiles.  Peter is to continue the message with the Jewish community.  

      •  That's exactly what I meant. (5+ / 0-)

        Taking the message to Gentiles--the traveling salesman. He went everywhere, man--Corinth, Thessalonia, Rome. Peter and Paul apparently disagreed about cutting in the Gentiles, but being a hellenized Jew, Paul saw a great big world of potential Christians out there, and he was right.

        I never liked you and I always will.

        by Ray Blake on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 06:25:05 PM PST

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        •  Though interestingly... (1+ / 0-)
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          Only Needs a Beat

 was Peter who first had the revelation that gentiles could become followers of Jesus, including receiving the Spirit of God, without following Jewish law.

          •  Not even close to true. (2+ / 0-)
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            native, No one gets out alive

            It was Jesus who gathered a "mixed" following, and preached an inclusiveness that went beyond Hebrew identity, and suggested a very non-traditional (almost Buddhist) set of social rules.  It was Peter who turned that message into a twisted sort of "universal Judaism" (adopting and following most, though not all, the "old testament" rules).

            That is what laid the foundation for 2000 years of Christian/Jewish conflict . . . with "traditional" Judaism reserved for "Hebrews only" and "Christian Jusaism" claiming "open to all" (while both ignored the actual message from Jesus).

            Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

            by Deward Hastings on Fri Dec 28, 2012 at 07:29:42 AM PST

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            •  Still not the real story (0+ / 0-)

              I don't recall that Jesus preached very much in non-Jewish communities, though there were some exceptions, notably the Samaritan woman at the well.

              But Peter DID have the revelation that I described and his response to it at the moment it happened was as I described.

              Later, Peter insisted that Gentiles should follow Jewish law, but Paul challenged him on it, and after discussion, everyone (including Peter) agreed that the Gentiles didn't need to follow Jewish law, with the one exception of not eating meat with blood in it. And I don't think that one lasted long.

              So we shouldn't blame 2000 years of Christian/Jewish conflict on Peter. There are some other notable causes for it, but I see no need to change subjects.

    •  Paul not the inventor? (8+ / 0-)

      I beg to differ. Deriving the doctrine of blood propitiation—the heart and soul of modern Calvinist/fundie "christianity"—from the Gospels alone is not bloody likely.

      Fundamentalist Christians flouting the teachings of Christ, while running their "salvation"-by-the-blood a mile into the ground, can only be chalked up to Paul's epistles, esp. Hebrews.

      Paul very, very much invented Christianity, as we know it.

      Isn't it a good feeling when you see the paper in the morning, it says 'Axe Slayer Kills 19' and you say, "They can't pin that one on me!" - Jean Shepherd

      by razajac on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:37:49 PM PST

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    •  "Not true Matthew" . . . (8+ / 0-)

      written long after Jesus was dead in service of those who wanted to lay their own claim to a "church" that Jesus himself didn't create.  There's not much to be learned about Jesus or the early church by taking Matthew's Gospel as gospel . . . it's all made up, for a purpose . . .

      It took "the Church" 400 years to re-write the stories and sort out all the lies and create "Christianity" as we know it today . . . pretty much without Jesus (except in name).  Who knows when they added that self-serving "Jesus chose Peter" nonsesnse . . .

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:17:34 PM PST

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