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View Diary: UPDATE: Husband is in custody (tentative murder charge) (322 comments)

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  •  Social and Political Power is the Difference. (19+ / 0-)

    Some minorities have high murder rates, but their victims also tend to be minorities, and the violence happens in the violent context of poverty and oppression by the wider culture.

    Nobody here said "men are shit," or "All men are bad." But people who belong to a dominant power group need to own up to the use of its power. I acknowledge my white privilege and power, I acknowledge that white privileged is constantly abused, if not by me, by others. I acknowledge my my class power, my power of education, and the fact that my dollars go to blowing up brown people. This does not translate to my believing that whites or Americans or middle-class people are "shit."

    So consider not being so thin-skinned. You sound like the Christians who insist they are being persecuted by the atheists, or the heteros who insist they are being oppressed by the gays.

    Sorry, men as a group are not widely mistreated or oppressed by women. Not economically, not physically, not politically, not socially. Yes, some individual women are mean and violent. But no, women as a whole are not remotely as violent as men if you're looking at crime statistics.

    95% of domestic violence cases are men against women. One on four women are raped by men in their lives. About 2% of men are raped.. by other men. Not by women.

    If you believe otherwise, show us the numbers or go back to listening to Limbaugh.

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 12:59:13 PM PST

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    •  I have only one number, me. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joy of Fishes

      I was beaten by my older sister from age 7 Also beaten by my father from about age 4, he also beat my sister as well as my mother. No one gives a shit about male violence victims. Hide behind numbers all day, but it's clear you don't either.

      I am so sick of hearing how men are all rapists, and if you can't figure out that that's what it sounds like, then you are seriously tone deaf and lacking in self awareness.

      The Limbaugh comment is especially disgusting. Why would you say something like that to a total stranger? Fucked up.

      You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

      by Eric Stratton on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 01:12:23 PM PST

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      •  So.. your father beat your entire family (6+ / 0-)

        ..and your point is what, again?

        I'm REALLY sorry that your father abused you, but it goes even more to my point. And of course, male violence victims deserve every bit the care and support that women get. (Both deserve better, in fact.) Which is why I mentioned above that male victims do exist. They just tend to be the victims of other men.

        I'm sorry your sister was mean to you when you were 7. (Find me a kid whose older siblings didn't pound on them.) But if you heard "all men are rapists" from anything that was said on this page, you really do need some help. I hope you get it.

        If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

        by rhetoricus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 01:45:25 PM PST

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        •  I know we're on the same side, (7+ / 0-)

          But let's not trivialize the abuse Eric Stratton suffered at the hands of his sister.  Just like I'd expect him to believe a rape victim when she says she's been raped, I would expect us to believe him when he says his sister abused him.  I might think he has some messed up political beliefs, but that doesn't change the fact that his story should be believed and treated with respect.

          •  I absolutely believe him (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LSophia, lotlizard, splashy

            ..but no one anywhere remotely suggested that individual women can't be horrible and cruel (teen girls can be some of the meanest creatures on earth). And no one anywhere even remotely implied that "all men are rapists." It's unfair and, frankly, manipulative, to use a personal tragedy as a means to ignore one's position of relative social and political power and dismiss a much more widespread tragedy in the culture. That only worsens the problem.

            As a comparison: I have been a victim of violent crime three times in my life. All three were committed by strangers who were nonwhite (and male). I was a child when the worst of them happened. I'm lucky to have survived, and there were times I wished I had not.

            But I sure as hell am not going to raise that specter in an effort to argue some bullshit point about violence and nonwhites in general, or suggest that my bad experiences somehow negate all systemic differences in power and institutionalized violence between whites and people of color in this country.

            I don't lack sympathy for the guy for what happened with his sister, but he sees everything only from his own perspective. His perceived insult. His exceptional case. The only "numbers" that matter are his. Which is exactly how people in power positions tend to act when their privilege is called out. It was his dismissal of the disproportionate systemic power of (especially straight) men I was calling bullshit on.

            If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

            by rhetoricus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 04:20:58 PM PST

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            •  yes! (6+ / 0-)

              I got viciously mugged by a guy in front of witnesses. He knocked out a bunch of teeth and left me unconscious in a pool of my own blood. You know what people said? "We thought it was her boyfriend." Because apparently there's an exception to the fake rule that MRAs like to cite about how men get raised not to hit women (aside from the obvious fact that not only do many men, in fact, hit women, but also that many many more lie about this simple fact over and over again) and that's if you know a woman, it's okay to hit her because she probably had it coming.  At least eight people told the cops that they thought it was my boyfriend. Too see a guy beating a woman's face into the ground is to think they're in a relationship.  By the same token, when my best friend took me to the store later, merely seeing a man and a woman together makes people think only, "Relationship."

                My best dearest coworker at the time was another black man and when he found out what happened to me, he asked sadly, "So do you feel differently about black men now?" That's when I saw what prompted that question. That's what people had done in the past and he had seen that. I told him I had no reason to change my opinion about black men, and as I'd never been fond of muggers previously, I had kept that opinion.  What left me enraged were all the so-called nice people and all the shitty stupid sexist opinions they revealed themselves to have in the wake of the experience, including the female boss who said, "Well, no wonder you got mugged."

              •  This is a precise illustration of the problem (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LSophia, zett, splashy, ginmar

                (of sexism and heterosexism) and its deeply embedded nature in our culture. So sorry this happened to you. It's crazy, we often have no trouble accepting that shit happens and there are crazy assholes out there. What is horrible is when others perceive it as normal or deserved.

                If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

                by rhetoricus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:21:07 PM PST

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                •  'crazy' is not the reason (0+ / 0-)

                  I wish people would start to realize that 'crazy' is not why people do shit, paraticularly if they pick women as their victims. We blame women for what men do to them. We treat male actions as a fact of nature, and so we let them off the hook, and make women adjust their lives, their choices, their options, so that men simply don't have to. When a man chooses to attack a woman, he'd picking a victim he knows society will not care about or listen to. That's not crazy. That's deliberate. Even the cops don't care.

          •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LSophia

            Except MRAs tend to lie flagrantly about their experiences, and he's already made a bunch of claims and statements that MRAs typically trot out.  They've poisoned the well and then they dare to complain when others don't like the taste.

            •  You are referring to this? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LSophia

              I just looked up "MRA." Yikes.

              If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

              by rhetoricus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 07:28:31 PM PST

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              •  Yes, hate groups (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                rhetoricus

                They have standard talking points which identify them. One is that women are given preferential treatment everywhere over men. Women, they say, get child custody thanks to court bias, when most judges still lean conservative, white, and male; that women lie about rape, when numerous cases have shown that even when women tell the truth, they get called liars, while the opposite is true of men, that women are just as violent against men as vice versa, while they try and hide the fact that they're citing data from the early Nineties studies on domestic violence-----before the problems with the methodology were identified and fixed to some extent. For example, in one of the first major domestic violence surveys, they removed all data on sexual assaults because that 'skewed' the results,  as if counting what happened wasn't their true goal, but presenting a tit-for-tat reckoning was. Another problem was self reporting; the victim and abuser were interviewed together in the same room. The third was the concept of just counting; they counted 'acts of violence' without context, so in one case, where a man stabbed a woman twice, and she flung objects at him---including pillows---to defend himself, both of them were counted as committing two acts of violence each.  That is to say nothing of the fact that they openly advocate violence against women and those who help them,  and they talk eagerly about getting on juries and voting according to agenda, whatever the actual facts are: voting for acquittal in rape cases, no matter what, and for conviction if the defendant is female, no matter. And so it goes.

                Their most common tactic is to attempt to minimize what men do and maximize---often comically---what women do.  To this end they often cite percentages rather than raw numbers,  because if you have two homicides committed by women one year and double that number the next year, 200% sounds so much more violent than saying, "Four".  Especially when you might have thirty six or so committed by men in the same time period.

        •  My brother and I were NEVER allowed to "pound" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          badscience, rhetoricus

          on our younger sisters.

          **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

          by glorificus on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 05:46:08 PM PST

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      •  It's not hard to understand. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover, splashy, ginmar

        Most rapists are male, but most men are not rapists.  I think kossacks are sophisticated enough to know the difference, don't you?

      •  Nobody said that (0+ / 0-)

        all men are rapists, yet you MRAs go straight from 'most rapists are men' to 'OMG you said all men are RAPISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'  

        There's a difference there. What is it?

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