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View Diary: Proof of Heaven (664 comments)

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  •  I'm with you (19+ / 0-)

    I already know that billions of people have had subjective experiences that they interpret as communication with God. But nothing that goes on inside someone else's head is going to alter my beliefs about the nature of reality.

    If I experience it myself then maybe I'll see it differently. I doubt it, though. I'm fairly certain I would still see anything I experienced while in a coma as a mental state caused by an ailing brain.

    We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

    by denise b on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 08:12:15 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  What's interesting is that the author, (12+ / 0-)

      a neurosurgeon, actually considers various neurological explanations for his experience, and concludes that none of them make sense. He explains why in terms that are easy for laymen to grasp. One is left to conclude that if he's not lying about the whole thing, then either the brain has capacities that we don't know about yet or that he did in fact experience consciousness outside of the brain's function. His point in the book is that you can't chalk up what happened to him to brain function, at least according to anything we currently understand about how the brain functions.

      Please visit:

      by Noisy Democrat on Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:06:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was the same way regarding healings via (10+ / 0-)

      CAMs.  Although this has nothing to do about god, I suppose it could fall under some form of "supernatural" & at least subjectivity.

      In the mid 90's a reporter friend convinced me to go along to a "healing fair" for a print series.  First & foremost, I knew zip about new agey CAMS or even what a "healing fair" was & at the time, my work revolved around objective & uber strict data collection.

      I agreed to go albeit with a closed & highly skeptical mindset.

      Once there, I discovered that one was to pick from a variety of scheduled 15 minute sessions.  Sigh, I chose the ones that did not involve needles or hypnosis or other weird (to me) shite.

      I admit to also being afraid that someone would try to do a vulcan mind meld/read my mind or something, so I purposefully did not give any of the practitioners one syllable of info or even speech & kept up a "kind-peace" mantra going in my brain at all times.  Heh, seriously like a shield.

      I cannot relate my entire experience here (too lengthy) but 3 of the 4 practitioners I had a session with altered me & my skepticism-forever.  

      Subjectively, during the sessions, different experiences ranged from feeling furnace heat coming from hands held 6 or more inches from my body to seeing either golden arcs or geometric from the others.  By lunchtime, I felt like I was muffled in cotton & in an other worldly space that lasted until the next day.  

      After lunch, I floated to my last "safe" sessions with an Asian herb doctor who could not find my pulse which sorta freaked him out & demanded that I not meditate so much.  (I did not meditate at all at the time)

      It was a weird & mind boggling experience that I will never forget.

      Objectively, I happened to have an annual exam the following week that included bone density xrays-which were compared to all prior xrays.  The bone loss-especially in the hips had completely reversed-to the astonishment of my physician.  

      Ahem, I could not bring myself to tell him about the "healing sessions" of the prior week..where two of the practitioners had concentrated on what they "felt" were issues or blockages.  (The one with the furnace hands did not do this)

      To this day, I have never gone to another healing fair nor know whose hands were ultimately responsible for my condition(s).

      However, to this day I still pursue answers, no longer am as skeptical & eventually trained extensively & was certified in a particular complementary alternative field that is currently used in hospitals around the USA & planet.  With results that cannot be quantified via current scientific methodologies.


      Mysterious realm we occupy, eh?

      •  Damn. I need some of that! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mary Mike, worldlotus, SchuyH

        I'm REALLY suffering with some health problems.

        •  CAM=complementary and alternative medicine (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus, rb608, The Marti
          Per the NCCAM:
          Defining CAM is difficult, because the field is very broad and constantly changing. NCCAM defines CAM as a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicine. Conventional medicine (also called Western or allopathic medicine) is medicine as practiced by holders of M.D. (medical doctor) and D.O. (doctor of osteopathic medicine) degrees and by allied health professionals, such as physical therapists, psychologists, and registered nurses.

          The boundaries between CAM and conventional medicine are not absolute, and specific CAM practices may, over time, become widely accepted.

          "Complementary medicine" refers to use of CAM together with conventional medicine,
          such as using acupuncture in addition to usual care to help lessen pain. Most use of CAM by Americans is complementary. "Alternative medicine" refers to use of CAM in place of conventional medicine. "Integrative medicine" combines treatments from conventional medicine and CAM for which there is some high-quality evidence of safety and effectiveness. It is also called integrated medicine.

          Emphasis is mine because I personally adhere to & personally believe in only using  "Complementary medicine" and/or "Integrative medicine" (combining conventional & CAM).  

          I'm not a doctor & would never suggest to anyone to not use/seek traditional medical intervention primarily or replace it with alternative practices.  Nor do I believe that any non medical CAM practitioner should or could "diagnose"-ever.  That is not the role of CAM.

          My own initial research many moons ago led me (amongst others) to the Consortium of Academic Health Centers for Integrative Medicine, co-founded by the The Arizona Center for Integrative Medicine.

          Heh, it was much smaller then as opposed to today:

          Developed the first and most comprehensive academic curriculum in integrative medicine.

           Co-founded the Consortium of Academic Health Centers for Integrative Medicine, with Duke University and the University of Massachusetts. The Consortium has 46 member institutions engaged in clinical, educational, and research programs in integrative medicine.

          Created the first Integrative Medicine in Residency program, which is a national model for training of all physicians in integrative medicine.

          Offers the largest Fellowship in the world, having graduated nearly 1000 Fellows in integrative medicine by 2012, with 120 new practitioners accepted to the Fellowship each year thereafter.

          Has trained doctors from 47 U.S. states and 15 countries and territories.

          Read  further synopsis of CAMs here:

          or here:

          or here:

          There are tons more.

          Depends on what state you live in & which CAM appeals to you; the probability exists that there is a practitioner, University or conventional medical hospital nearby that offers CAM.  Beit Minnesota, Johns Hopkins, Duke, etc.

          FWIW, religion nor belief systems play a role in the majority of CAMs....or the results.

          Be prudent. Select CAM practitioners with great care & always find out about the practitioner's training and experience-just as you would with a conventional medical practitioner.

          Best to you, Timaeus!

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