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View Diary: The problem with Chuck Hagel (216 comments)

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  •  Like I said (0+ / 0-)

    We have forgiven Clinton signing DOMA because he now has come out for marriage equality. People can change and abandon misguided beliefs.

    You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

    by tomjones on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:07:30 PM PST

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    •  yes (5+ / 0-)

      in just three years hagel has suddenly become enlightened.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:08:43 PM PST

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    •  Clinton recorded calls for NC amendment 2 (7+ / 0-)

      Clinton has donated and hosted LGBT fundraisers.

      Hagel hasn't really done anything except voice conveniently timed words.

      It's a false equivalency to compare them.

      "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

      by Scott Wooledge on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:23:33 PM PST

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      •  So he did something (0+ / 0-)

        by your own account.

        IOW, it it is a real equivalency.

        You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

        by tomjones on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:29:53 PM PST

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        •  But neither Clinton nor Hagel (0+ / 0-)

          made any swipes against your dignity nor civil rights, did they?

          "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

          by Scott Wooledge on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:36:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, silly me (0+ / 0-)

            I thought we were talking about what was best for the country, and not what personal "swipes" mean in this context.

            You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

            by tomjones on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:58:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  And not "by my own account." (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laurence Lewis, Skipbidder

          Empirically. These are facts, that are knowable in the reality-based universe, if you'd care to look them up.

          "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

          by Scott Wooledge on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 07:41:58 PM PST

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          •  Yes, I agree (0+ / 0-)

            The empirical facts you've stated are that both Clinton and Hagel have lent support recently to the cause of gay and lesbian equality. And both had pretty crummy past records, although I would argue that Clinton signing DOMA was much much worse than anything Hagel did.

            You never trust a millionaire/Quoting the sermon on the mount/I used to think I was not like them/But I'm beginning to have my doubts -- The Arcade Fire

            by tomjones on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:01:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, I didn't bring up Clinton (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              craigkg, Laurence Lewis, Skipbidder

              you did. Bill Clinton isn't a possible nomination for the cabinet, so I'm not sure how he's relevant to a discussion of this potential nominee's record in any event.

              But I guess you're in the camp that Chuck Hagel is the best possible nominee. I disagree, as many do. Wesley Clark, Joe Sestak, and a handful of other names are being tossed around.

              "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

              by Scott Wooledge on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:21:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I doubt Clinton wanted to sign DOMA or DADT (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Zack from the SFV

        He got played and he knew he had no choice but to sign both bills. Politics can be a truly revolting business sometimes. And for what it's worth I don't think he believed a single word of the statements he made at the time he signed either of those pieces of filth.

        He did, after all, appoint Roberta Achtenberg, an out lesbian, as an Assistant Secretary at HUD. She was the first out person who was ever appointed to a position that was subject to Senate confirmation (and I'm sure many of us remember the crap she had to put up with during the hearings). I don't think Clinton was homophobic then and I don't think he's a homophobe now.

        •  Bill is Bill... (2+ / 0-)

          he sold out a lot of people, on NAFTA, welfare reform, Glass-Stegall repeal... He is who he is, one of the most gifted and charismatic politicians of our time. And, many of his policies were awful, except for all the alternative policies that could have been passed.

          "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

          by Scott Wooledge on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 10:57:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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