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View Diary: The least bad option: Going over the artificial fiscal cliff (388 comments)

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  •  Re (0+ / 0-)
    Eliminate the debt ceiling forever
    The markets will institute a ceiling regardless of what Congress and the President do or don't do.

    (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
    Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

    by Sparhawk on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 03:18:16 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Is the corporate marketplace (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nada Lemming

      the government? Are they one and the same? If so isn't this the classic definition of fascism? Seems to me the debt ceiling is the creation of the very entities that have looted and pillaged globally and created this obscene debt were now supposed to pony up for. They have manufactured this debt and made it ours. They are certainly able to raise the damn ceiling on it.

      Not to mention that they have played fast and lose with our public credit and hedged their bets so they make obscene money no matter what it does to the  real economies of people globally. Privatizing the debt while they bail and make a killing on the backs of the very people they pillaged from. They own it and to try to get it out of their victims we the people is not what democracy looks like. Goldman Sachs and their ilk now want to privatize public monies and have ordinary people pick up the tab.

           

    •  The market's judgement on this is interest rates. (0+ / 0-)

      They are at historic lows, indicating total confidence in the US currency & ability to pay its debt.  The markets deem us safe.

      •  Greek bonds were trading at 4%... (0+ / 0-)

        ...in November 2009. Things can go south in a hurry.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 09:03:19 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  greece (0+ / 0-)

          can't print its own money.  You know this so I won't explain further.  But austerity is causing Greece more problems than their debt did.  Making bankers whole at the expense of the people tends to bring out the worst in people.  .  

          "I'm a Republican from the 80s". - The most "liberal" president in my lifetime.

          by Nada Lemming on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 11:54:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

            And printing money would have been a catastrophe for Greece if it had been able to do so.

            At the end of the day, economic productivity is about making goods and services of value, not printing fiat currency. No lender wants to be "paid back" in worthless currency.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 07:18:17 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Surely you not arguing (0+ / 0-)

              That the US currency is worthless.  We went off the gold standard in the 70s for good reason .  

              It would take a LOT of easing to even raise the interest rates.  The bond fairy ruse is just that.  Hasn't come out to play, and won't because we aren't close to not being able to sell bonds.  

              "I'm a Republican from the 80s". - The most "liberal" president in my lifetime.

              by Nada Lemming on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:10:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

                We went off the gold standard... to devalue our currency.

                Everything must be paid for, always, in some way.

                Magical free lunch thinking will not save us.

                (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
                Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

                by Sparhawk on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:54:12 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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