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View Diary: American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to pay damages of $9.3 million (30 comments)

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  •  I'm a little confused by this diary (13+ / 0-)

    You make it sound like the animal groups committed the highest of crimes (they were struggling to get standing to sue, which can be very difficult thanks to American law). Then you say it's cruel to have elephants in circuses, but then you say the animal groups benefit from elephants in circuses -- even though these groups were trying to get elephants out of circuses because they know it's cruel.

    Yes, animals in captivity can make people more sympathetic toward them, but you don't mention zoos, which are a much better place for them to be captive and they often have breeding programs to help grow the species.

    Personally I donate to these groups and I don't really have an issue with them trying to find a way to get standing to sue. It's not uncommon for environmental groups to take unusual means to get standing. I'd prefer it if they didn't break the law, but they did, so they'll have to pay for it.

    Refuge Watch -- news from America's national wildlife refuges

    by Naturegal on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:18:40 AM PST

    •  I'm kind of in the same place as Johnny (11+ / 0-)

      wurster bellow. The animal rights groups do nothing to actually help elephants, they prey on emotion for donations and subvert the law to get convictions for more donations. Elephants are helped not at all. I don't really like elephants in zoos either, they are exploited for amusement and ever more donations and entry fees.

      Probably circuses are a place elephants are treated about as well as anywhere but then we don't know now do we, because all we have is testimony for money. At the end of the day any org that keeps elephants is contributing to the problem. "Out of circuses is just a shifting of exploiters"

      Maybe consider not buying things made of tropical wood or looking for an org that is into preserving habitat. Think of species not individuals.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:54:44 AM PST

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    •  There is a local elephant retirement center (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, ladybug53

      near me. They are rarely open to the public, but they do open occasionally to get money to operate and educate the public. The woman who runs the place is very protective of her animals (they have a number of other critters as well). Elephants that live in captivity do live much longer than in the wild because they are protected.

      One thing that I was surprised to learn from visiting is that her retired circus elephants live much longer than the zoo elephants. She explained that they were much healthier because they were athletes. The claim of "being worked to death" doesn't really hold any water.

      •  learn more, you are uninformed and maybe part (0+ / 0-)

        of the problem.

        Without donations there would be no draw for ever more captive elephants.

        Only some captive elephants live longer, particularly those in more natural settings. Every year elephants die from over work at the tourist places, they aren't given enough time to eat. Infant and other mortality outpaces births. Always more are needed from the wild, wether for tourism, circuses, zoos, or so called sanctuaries.

        It should be illegal to keep elephants for any reason other than scientific research.

        How big is your personal carbon footprint?

        by ban nock on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 07:18:58 AM PST

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        •  People *love* being talked to that way. n/t (5+ / 0-)

          You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

          by Rich in PA on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 08:25:03 AM PST

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          •  You're dealing with someone who blames the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rileycat

            people trying to save abused elephants for the creation of elephant abuse.

            "Rude" is a long way from the biggest problem here.  This person is arguing in earnest that sanctuaries caring for Elephants who have no wilderness or family to return to are the cause of decreasing numbers of wild elephants.

            It's like saying that programs designed to provide housing and rehab for victims of human trafficking are * responsible* for people being trafficked.

            This is Timecube "logic".

            "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

            by JesseCW on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 02:34:08 PM PST

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        •  You think rescue centers and sanctuaries are (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rileycat

          creating a "draw" for the capture of wild Elephants?

          Seriously?

          I can't believe people keep recommending  your Onionesque bullshit.

          "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

          by JesseCW on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 02:31:16 PM PST

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      •  They have that retreat in Tennessee. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ladybug53, zerelda, johnny wurster

        Forget its name now.

        "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

        by Bush Bites on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 07:58:26 AM PST

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