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View Diary: Gun Owners Should Have the Equivalent of a Pilot’s License. (194 comments)

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  •  Sigh (0+ / 0-)

    You want to pretend that your comment to me wasn't caustic and antagonistic in both words and tone, I'm not going to waste time arguing.

    Just please answer one of my previous questions: do you consider it an infringement on your rights (in your words "giving away your liberties") to be prohibited from carrying a loaded weapon onto an airplane?  Would you advocate for a policy that allowed all airline passengers to carry loaded, concealed weapons?  If not, aren't you being hypocritical in your views?  Isn't the only reason for such a ban that it serves the "practical" purpose of making airlines more safe?  Please explain.

    Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set... -- Gandalf

    by dnta on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 01:58:04 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It wasn't disrespectful, and I really don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      43north

      understand how you could have found it so.

      "answer one of my previous questions"
      A can answer that one, and many of others with a simple sentence: I don't think any of our Constitutional rights, as currently understood, should be infringed with added limitations.

      "aren't you being hypocritical"
      No. I am being consistent. I didn't support warrantless wiretaps, Gitmo, or torture because they infringed on liberties as currently understood.

      You are being inconsistent about which liberties you care to support, while insisting that other Americans give up Constitutional rights (rights which, conveniently enough, you don't utilize) for your feelings of insecurity.
      I rejected that type of thinking when the right-wing pushed for it, and I reject it now.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 02:13:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Respectfully, you didn't answer my question (0+ / 0-)

        I specifically asked about guns on airplanes.  As best I understand it, maybe you're saying that this prohibition is a "currently understood" status quo, so you can live with that, but you don't want any "added limitations".  Am I getting this right?

        But before, I asked you to explain WHY you wouldn't accept any further restrictions, what is so bad about them, if they applied only to certain high-capacity weapons, etc.? You got side-tracked on my use of "practical purpose", but didn't answer that question, either.  So I'll ask again: WHY wouldn't you accept any further limitations on weapons?

        I'm honestly interested in the answer, especially if you're representative of others with similar views.  I keep hearing about "infringements on liberties" and so forth, but that's tautology: you can't say "I don't want any more infringements on my liberties, because I'm against infringements on liberties".  Please help me understand.

        Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set... -- Gandalf

        by dnta on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 02:29:37 PM PST

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        •  You don't get to ask loaded questions (0+ / 0-)

          and then complain about the method I answer them in.

          "guns on airplanes"
          You are correct. It wasn't meant to be a cryptic answer.

          "WHY you wouldn't accept any further restrictions"
          Because I am unwilling to give away any American liberties for perceived security.

          "you can't say "I don't want anymore infringements on my liberties, because I'm against infringements on liberties"
          You certainly can. The reasons for being pro-freedom, pro-liberty & pro-Bill of Rights is, in the words of the Declaration of Independence, "self-evident".

          What I find less self-evident, is why you find taking liberties away from innocent Americans so important & how you can propose doing it so flippantly.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 05:15:22 PM PST

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          •  You know what I find most disturbing? (0+ / 0-)

            Your sig line.  You obviously must believe that pretty strongly, or your wouldn't have adopted it.  So you're in favor of liberty and security... except for those people who would be willing to "sacrifice" some of their liberty to enhance their security?

            How am I supposed to react to that sentiment? Because you've just (again) accused me of wanting to "take liberties away" from Americans, and that I would do so "flippantly".

            So, in your view, I am not deserving of either liberty or security now?  You'd be happy to see me incarcerated, attacked without defense, or what?

            I'm sensing that you're not really a progressive at all, but a garden-variety Libertarian purist.  The Tea Party is full of people with the same attitudes: their "liberty" is the only thing that matters, and they are aghast at any proposals or policies that would infringe in any way on them.  Have you checked out those groups?  I'm guessing you'd find some true kindred spirits.  And I don't say this at all sarcastically.

            Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set... -- Gandalf

            by dnta on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 07:25:54 PM PST

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            •  It is a famous paraphrase of a quote by (0+ / 0-)

              Benjamin Franklin.

              "I'm sensing"
              Thanks for your demonstration of clairvoyance. I am someone whom has voted for Dems in every election except for Nader in 2000. Do you typically find Nader voters 'not progressive' enough?

              You may have noticed many people here at Daily Kos has two numbers in their sig line (for example; -5.03, -7.43). Those numbers come from this website.
              You should check it out. It should help you understand why your attempted advise to me is silly.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:45:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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