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View Diary: Ancient Ireland: Celts? (116 comments)

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  •  More social construction (18+ / 0-)

    I'm willing to bet that when we get to the origins of the modern usage of the term "Celt" in England, it will be traced to an attempt to create a group of people who are inferior to the Angles and Saxons. There's evidence that the language the British used to describe the natives of North America in the seventeenth century was the same as the language they used to describe their Celtic subalterns.

    -7.75, -8.10; Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Dave in Northridge on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 08:52:29 AM PST

    •  Angles and Saxons... (10+ / 0-)

      ... and Jutes who invaded Britain first by invitation in the fifth century (Vortigern allegedly invited them), then by force, were not British.

      Angles / Angeln, Saxons, and Jutes were from what is present-day Denmark (Jutland), northern Germany (Saxony), and perhaps North Frisia.  Collectively we still call them the Anglo-Saxons even though they were separate peoples at one time.

      They brought the Danelaw with them.

      The word England came into being with their invasion since it's a contraction of "Angle Land" - or lands claimed by the Angles in what was then called Britain.

      The Greek word Keltoi is the origin of the Latin-spelled Celt.  It's always pronounced with a hard K sound.  Latin has no K so C was substituted by the Catholic monks who were the ones who wrote so much of the (sanitized) history of the Celts in the British Isles.

      The proto-Celts seem to have originated somewhere in Scythia..., and with overpopulation there were migrations ever westward and northward..., and eventually distinctions of different groups of people by language or tribal association..., and then countries....  It's quite possible that most of Europe, Scandinavia, and the British Isles have genetic origins in the Scythian region.

      [The one thing I regret with advancing age is the realization that I probably won't live long enough to know more about the genetic origins of most of humanity..., other than the fact that our collective mtDNA goes back to an original Mitochondrial Eve in Africa some +/-200,000 years ago.  I suspect many more discoveries will be made in the next 50-100 years that will pinpoint origins of mutations - like the blue-eyed mutation was discovered not all that many years ago when one considers the timeline of history, for instance.  Perhaps genetic cures will be found for inherited illnesses and medical conditions.  It should be rather exciting..., if we can keep corporations and megalomaniacal "leaders" out of scientific research.]

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 04:38:20 PM PST

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      •  While I am aware of most of this information, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO, barbwires, marykk

        thanks to many hours of homework, courtesy of a series of good schools (Thank you, mother, dear!) it is like meeting an old friend!

        You, Nonny, have much to answer for.  You got me re-interested in all this!!  Thank you so very much!

        I'll stick around to see those answers come, if you will.  They can prop us up in the corner of the library, with our shawls and cats and a secret store of 'the creature' and we'll find out what those new discoveries are!

        Marti

        We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

        by The Marti on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 05:27:41 PM PST

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        •  :-) Velbekomme...! (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Marti, Ice Blue, barbwires, marykk

          Literal Translation from the formal Norwegian:  May it become you well.

          When it comes to arcane history, my bookshelves are crammed (yes, for real - I ran out of space to put bookshelves and had to start putting books in boxes).

          My various kinds of knowledge comes from multiple sources, but chiefly acquired because as a chronic insomniac I needed to keep my mind occupied in the wee hours of the night..., so I read books - and more books - and more books.  If I ran out of histories, I would delve into archaeology and ancient history and the like.  If I ran out of the heavier topics, I switched to reading historical fiction about those time periods (a few authors are adept at using real events around which to build their stories of fictitious people, so some history becomes an enjoyable read because the essential details are from facts and only the characters are fictitious).

          Or I picked up a new topic to study..., and my fascinations lead me to "immersion learning."  It's all I read about for a few years until I can't find any more interesting books or I run out of reference material by reading the bibliographies in the back of "serious books."  There is nothing more fun than learning something new.

          All of that ties nicely into my genealogy research, because about the time British history goes off the rails with religious wars and strife and becomes too boring and tedious to deal with, then I pick up with early American history and documents..., and it matters a whole lot because some of my ancestors were there and participated.

          It becomes one long continuum with a timeline that goes back two or three thousand years.....

          May you enjoy reacquainting yourself with the past...!

          Oh....  Many years ago I told my best friend that if reincarnation is a fact, I want to spend my life between incarnations in a library where I can do nothing but read and acquire knowledge so that I can be "born smart" in the next life....

          :-D

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:29:47 PM PST

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          •  It's nice to rediscover a line of inquiry that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NonnyO, marykk

            keeps me intrigued like this!  Although, I'd really rather not have another bout of insomnia to get me started!  :-)

            Oh.  and this:

            Oh....  Many years ago I told my best friend that if reincarnation is a fact, I want to spend my life between incarnations in a library where I can do nothing but read and acquire knowledge so that I can be "born smart" in the next life....
            If what I believe is true, there's a pretty good chance that that is exactly what goes on. It's just not always possible to carry it over into the next life.  But I'm pretty sure we'll meet up in that Great Library!

            We cannot call ourselves a civilised society if we refuse to protect the weakest among us.

            by The Marti on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:57:35 PM PST

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            •  See you there someday! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              The Marti, marykk

              Shawl, Snuggling Kitties, and all...!

              [Hafta wait a few years yet 'cuz I have a few new things to find on a few genealogy lines first....]

              :-)

              I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

              by NonnyO on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 07:02:00 PM PST

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