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View Diary: High School Rape in a small American city (71 comments)

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  •  This is not (11+ / 0-)
    In America there are talks given to incoming freshmen women at colleges on how not to get raped. Doesn't it make sense to instead teach the boys how to treat young women respectfully?
    an "instead of" situation.

    "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

    by JesseCW on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:50:53 PM PST

    •  Yes, I think it is wise for young women (20+ / 0-)

      to learn to protect themselves but I think you are parsing words here (and adding one) and thereby negating the point I was making.

      What gets ignored is teaching young men to treat their peers as peers whether male or female, that all should be treated with dignity and respect, including themselves.

      Living a moral life, understanding what morals are, is an important thing that we somehow don't appear to be teaching our young ones.

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Sat Dec 29, 2012 at 06:57:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. (27+ / 0-)

      I have a niece. I talked to her early and often about how not to put herself in dangerous situations, even with people she thought she knew.

      I have a son. We have raised him to respect and treat all people well. A "don't rape women" talk at 16 or 18 won't make any difference if the boy has not been taught basic humanity.

      The man who raped me when I was 15 came crying to me a few years later, so sad because his girlfriend was raped. He suddenly discovered empathy.

      Still angry after all these years, and reading this brings it all back. And I don't want to hear from anyone that I should get rid of that anger, because unless it has happened to you, you really have no idea. Empathy only goes so far.

      •  It is a crippling inner wound . . . (4+ / 0-)

        as much an injury as if you lost a foot or hand or your sight.

        There is never again the same wholeness and openness to your spirit, knowing in your bones what the truth is about our species. Never again the readiness or ability to freely trust.

        For adults, love and sex is their most intimate playground, just as a toddler's favorite playground or their toys or their friends is their most joyous realm. To have that realm of open joy cruelly violated, for a child or an adult, wounds more permanently and deeply than can be outlived.

        What greater harm can be done than to take the joy out of being alive?

        And what does forgiveness have to do with it?

        Abused children, raped adults, crippled humans of every kind are those who face living out their days in a shattered body, a broken heart, a stricken soul or all of these.

        They are the ones among us who know forgiveness of the most sincere and heartfelt intensity still stops well short of addressing, of healing, of changing what remains as it is:


        Something has been broken.

        And it remains broken.

        And the sun comes up on another day.

    •  it is slightly in that if you have to do ONE (5+ / 0-)

      address one of the two sexes, better to address perpertrators not victims...more effective in more ways than one.

      Only one group is now talked to about Rape...the women. As if it's a state of being that the college or the men can't control if it was like dressing for the if it was a given.

      •  Rape is already a crime (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CA wildwoman, Sparhawk

        I think this sort of thinking is very misguided.  Rape is already considered a crime and people know it's wrong.  Telling people not to rape is a very pointless suggestion.  It's like saying in the wake of a school shooting that people should be told not to kill people.  It's simply an absolutely ineffective idea.

        Teaching people how to protect themselves from crime is not the same as condoning that crime.  If I went down to the worst part of town in a crimeridden city in the middle of the night and got victimized, that would be partially due to me putting myself in that situation. That does not excuse the perpetrators, but I would have been better served avoiding a situation where there is a high chance of something bad happening.

        Teaching people how to avoid potentially bad situations only makes sense.  The simple fact of the matter is not every single member of humanity is a noble person.  It's a dangerous world.  Ignoring that fact is simply naivety, and opens yourself up to being more likely to be victimized.

        •  Teaching people how to protect themselves (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          makese sense.

          But it is an understanding of morality that needs teaching not simply saying "don't do that."

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Sun Dec 30, 2012 at 08:19:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Wow. Where to start. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Andrew C White, jplanner

          Yes Rape is a crime. The problem is that the word rape carries it's own cultural baggage.  People imaging rape as this brutal, violent thing that happens to virgins.

          The problem is that Rape isn't always what people imagine.

          Sometimes it's a crime of opportunity when a woman or man passes out, either because they drank too much or were given a drug.

          Then they cannot consent or withhold consent. Some people, whether sober or buzzed, think it's perfectly alright to take advantage of that state of unconsciousness or that state of semi-consciousness.

          Some people are taught, even in the 21st century that no means yes. Especially if she has already kissed you or made out with you, or is dressed provocatively. Heck if she follows you up to your room for a chat, then "We all know the score", and it's okay to jump on her, because her presence in your domicile is an open invitation.

          Some men have issues understanding or delineating between sexual flirtation and normal niceties. All you have to do is make eye contact with them, or be alone with them, and it's because "secretly" you want them. They just know it, and you will too in a moment soon.

          Rape can also be about coercion. Sexting suddenly turns into blackmail. Or maybe you really need that A, or  maybe you need that job, or maybe he will let you live, if you just don't fight him.

          It's not always this animalistic attack from nowhere on Polly Purelood, sometimes, it comes from people you thought you knew, they can be anyone in your life, simply waiting for the right moment when the two of you are alone and their best defense in court is to tell everyone how you were there with them willingly, maybe you even kissed them.

          So please, I am asking you to get a clue

        •  what you miss is that some young men don't know (0+ / 0-)

          the definition of rape

          Sure, people know that it is illegal and it is rape to assault a woman physically and violently and force sex on her while she screams and fights. That is the public picture of rape.

          Young men do need to be taught that they should never have sex with a drunk woman (or man) because she may be too drunk to consent. Rape is defined, IIRC, as when someone has penetrative sex with someone who CANNOT or does not give consent.

          SO young men ...and if I had a son I would tell him this...need to be told to NEVER have sex with a woman that is drunk. Because she may not be able to consent

          We can tell the young men that the women are over there being taught how to avoid those situations as well.

          Being told the legal definition of rape brings clarity

          That they are not being talked to and the women are is SYMBOLICALLY TROUBLING. Don't forget we very much live in and historically it was even worse (and still is in many parts of the world) a place where women are often blamed for rape. That is what their instructing on ly the women says...reaffrims message to all that its the woman's responsibility NOT the mans

          SO if you are going to lecture one of the two, lecture the potential perpertrators to take responsibilty. I could easily say to you that it is equally (to the fact that rape is a crime) know to most women how to avoid rape. I agree with all you said about why the women are talked to.

          They should be talked to though not exclusively but with the men. IT send a terrible message of "the women is to blame" the way they don't talk to the men. It supports old beliefs and stereotypes.

    •  Because it tells those men young and old, any (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Andrew C White

      woman caught breaking those "rules" can be raped with impunity.

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