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View Diary: Obama makes fiscal cliff statement (454 comments)

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  •  The issue is that he's giving up leverage... (6+ / 0-)

    ...and creating a couple new crisis in the months ahead where he'd need that leverage. This deal, in isolation, is not terrible. But the fact that it spawns further, less winnable crisis in the near-term is unexcusable.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:27:41 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Tell Someone Living Week To Week On UI (4+ / 0-)

      All about the leverage as they have to decide whether to pay the rent, buy food or medicine over the next few weeks as their UI runs out.

      Go ahead. Tell 'em all about the leverage.

      Thank goodness Obama is thinking about those people.

      This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

      by Beetwasher on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:38:29 AM PST

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      •  I just told them about the leverage... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laconic Lib, Patango, Meteor Blades

        ...right back there in the comment you're replying to. You must have missed it.

        UI insurance extension has been gotten before, it could be gotten again for a smaller price given the Dems strength.  UI insurance is something, like the payroll tax, that is popular among Americans and could easily be the base of a deal and not the big win. UI could be the leverage and not the win, if the Dems weren't so bad at negotiating.

        And, as anyone can see, the artificial crises being created by this deal, and the squandering of most leverage, ANY deal, will be the potential end of UI in a month, and then again in two or three months, anyway.

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:50:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What Price? Repubs Got NOTHING (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vote4Obamain2012

          They got a fig leaf of a rise in the marginal tax rates. They wanted spending cuts. There are none.

          WTF are you talking about?

          This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

          by Beetwasher on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:09:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Permanent rates locked in... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mr Robert, Laconic Lib, Meteor Blades

            ...spending on certain programs remain temporary. No leverage left for the additional fiscal crises, of which there will now be multiple in 2013, spawned by this deal -- which will doubtlessly result in massive spending cuts and entitlement "reform". You're acting like this deal is THE deal. It's not the deal, it's a stopgap that demolishes the Dems leverage -- viewing it in isolation is nonsensical. This bill may not have spending cuts in it, but it creates the absolutely certainty of worse spending cuts in the follow-up bills which it makes necessary.

            it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

            by Addison on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:16:56 PM PST

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            •  Certainty? Really? Pray tell Nostradamus (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vote4Obamain2012

              What is this certainty of which you speak?

              The only thing that's certain is UI runs out TOMORROW for millions.

              Thankfully Obama cares about those people.

              This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

              by Beetwasher on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:18:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You'll see about the cuts... (0+ / 0-)

                ...and my issue isn't that UI cuts shouldn't be stopped tomorrow, that's a strawman. They should be.

                My issue is that in order to do that Barack Obama and the Dems have given up too much in their "step" approach to giving away the fiscal farm. And that they are bad negotiators who are once again negotiating with themselves.

                The deal to "save" UI (which shouldn't need "saving" in the first place, given that it is a popular program that could have been pressure on the GOP instead of a liability for the Dems) is one that simply creates future fiscal crises for no reason.

                And those future fiscal crises will find the Dems naked and unable to defend themselves, with the tax rates already having been made permanent. And this will result in massive spending cuts and entitlement "reform" -- all this you will see. Just wait.

                it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

                by Addison on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:23:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  "You'll See!" Is Not Certainty (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Vote4Obamain2012

                  UI is not a strawman, it's reality and thankfully the President cares about those people and not your symbolic victories.

                  This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: [http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher]

                  by Beetwasher on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 12:31:45 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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