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View Diary: Updated 2: So they have a deal... (33 comments)

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  •  I don't love this deal. (10+ / 0-)

    I have real concerns.  But ...

    Two thirds of this site has absolutely left the planet and is descending into utter batshit insanity.

    I imagine that Free Republic is a mirror image of this right now.

    •  Don't think its two thirds the site (4+ / 0-)

      But probably a faction of 200 or so.  Same 50 people keep flaming supporters.

      If at first you don't succeed, vote Teapublicans out and try again. You have to be persistent if you want anything out of life.

      by Final Frame on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 08:49:04 PM PST

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    •  They're vocal, yes. (3+ / 0-)

      I'm in more of a wait-and-see approach, but the Overton window has shifted in key areas here, most notably on how Republicans were forced to debate over how much taxes should go up on for the rich, and at what the starting income level would be.  That represents a decades-long reversal of what had been happening.  And my Green Party friend, who I can assure is to the left of EVERYONE here on this site, even Bernie Sanders (over gun control), was OK with it.

      •  Yes, I agree, we negotiated from a significantly (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stevenaxelrod, BruinKid, pamelabrown

        stronger position and I was convinced during the Democratic National Convention that the decades long pendulum swing of politics had started its swing back towards the left and I think this is more evidence of it. The angst I feel is not that we lost but that we didn't win as much as we should have and that we may well lose more in the next battle... but overall the R's on losing right now and the D's are winning... and I think with some understanding that the context of american politics is always in the middle somewhere... the right is losing and the left is winning.

        "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

        by Andrew C White on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:32:43 PM PST

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        •  Yep. (3+ / 0-)

          I think a lot of the angst is that the pendulum hasn't swung to the left even more than it has, but I think we need to see the bigger picture of how far it had swung to the right thanks to a confluence of factors, and I cannot emphasize just how damaging and destructive the emergence of Fox News has been in shoving formerly fringe right-wing ideas into the mainstream and speeding the pendulum being swung to the hard right over the last decade.

          But like I grimly told my Green Party friend, who agreed with this, we get the government we deserve, because we vote for them.  When over 30% of UNION members vote for anti-union Republican governors and state legislatures, something's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

          And while there's much to be said for gerrymandering and the will of the people, let's keep in mind well over 58 MILLION Americans voted for the Republican in House races this year.  Those 58 million Americans are the reason we're as fucked as we are.  Forget what we can do on our side in terms of getting new voters from whatever groups, but as for those people, either we change their minds, or wait for them to die off.

    •  My experience over the years is that, yes, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      when we hate a deal like this our counter parts tend to hate it as well. I don't hate the deal. If this was all there was to it then it wouldn't be all that bad an actual compromise.

      But that... let's do this dance again in two months when the R position is stronger and the D position is weaker... part has me not particularly happy.

      "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

      by Andrew C White on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 10:29:17 PM PST

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      •  Not sure we'll be weaker. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        remembrance, pamelabrown

        Repubs conceded things that were very important to us, especially unemployment insurance. Moreover, there will be more and better Dems in both houses in the next Congress.

        •  Meaning to say that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          the tax increases being the default position meant we were negotiating from a position of great strength on that issue. That won't be there in 2 months. Instead the Boehner will be negotiating from a position of the White House needing him to pass a debt ceiling increase. That improves his hand and weakens Obama's no matter how hardball Obama plays it.

          And while we will definitely have a strong Senate and mildly stronger House Boehner will still be Speaker so it is not going to be strong enough.

          And UI is now done. We won that which is incredibly important but that will be old history in 2 months. As will tax rates be unless as someone said above a deal was struck about matching future cuts with revenues. If that is true then yes, we will be in a strong negotiating position... but I find it hard to believe at the moment that he managed to get that out of them.

          "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

          by Andrew C White on Mon Dec 31, 2012 at 11:03:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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