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  •  You have strange values. I think the ACA is very (13+ / 0-)

    progressive. It's certainly not perfect, but neither are you or I.

    If you are silly enough to think one President could erase all the damage done since Reagan, I don't think you are very smart or understand how the political world works.

    But hey, if you are happy with your delusions, carry on.

    **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

    by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 04:33:14 AM PST

    •  Uh... the ACA was a Republican bill from the 90's (5+ / 0-)

      You weren't aware?

      "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

      by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 04:36:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Goes Back to Nixon nt (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kestrel9000, Andrew F Cockburn

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:38:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Happy New Year Goose! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Andrew F Cockburn

          Been a while. Hope things went well for you 2012 and will get better in 2013. I believe Nixon initiated HMO's and Dole authored a bill in the 90's requiring mandatory insurance - later initiated in MA by the effervescent governor who proceeded past his cognitive limits.

          "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

          by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:46:21 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  So? Nixon didn't get anything like this passed. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kefauver, Wee Mama

          Thomas Jefferson would have thought of it if he'd lived longer.

          What matters is who actually gets such a bill PASSED.

          **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

          by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:15:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Actually Nixon did a get a bill passed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            43north, aliasalias

            that defined the health care system we use today and we attempted to very mildly reform it with the ACA.

            Go to Sicko by Michael Moore for details.

            "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

            by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:24:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No. I'm not interested in the past, I'm interested (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kefauver, 43north, Wee Mama

              in NOW and the FUTURE. Nixon is dead, it is decades later.

              I saw Sicko, it was good.

              Nixon also signed the EPA into existence and the Endangered Species list began on his watch.

              Not all Republican ideas are bad ones, just the current ones.

              **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

              by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:32:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Help me understand, (0+ / 0-)

                didn't you bring up the notion that Nixon didn't get a health care bill passed?

                I believe there is strong evidence that he did get a health care bill passed and that you cared about the subject in the original post, hence my response. Also I think it is important to understand how we arrived at the present so we will know what we need to change to make our future better.

                "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

                by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:44:06 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, if you don't want to get anything done, by (0+ / 0-)

                  all means study it.

                  Nixon did not get near universal health care passed. I do not give a flying fuck what he did get passed in regards to health care, as it wasn't good enough.

                  I feel the ACA is an improvement.

                  By all means, keep studying the past. It will keep you out of the way of those trying to improve today.

                  **Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does** h/t Clytemnestra/Victoria Jackson

                  by glorificus on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:05:31 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hey, we have come to an understanding! (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    AaronInSanDiego

                    Perhaps not as profound as the subject we were trying to discuss but what the heck. I refuse to accept that studying a subject prevents one from acting on it. I take it that you are an intuiter. I have always had problems relating to intuiters so please don't feel alone with your outrage.

                    "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

                    by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:56:49 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  The ACA as enacted more than doubles (0+ / 0-)

        Community Health Centers. Otherwise it is largely a reform bill aimed at insurance companies.

        Romneycare ??? Sure thing.

        But that Massachusetts law was not constructed by Republicans. No way. The only thing Republican in it is the mandatory insurance for younger people.

        "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

        by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:01:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The manner that this legislation (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bob Friend, 43north, aliasalias

          was formed showed me that Obama has no time for Progressive causes. Ripping out the PO and not inserting Medicare for 50+ drove this point home.

          "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

          by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:09:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Ripping out the PO" never happened. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auron renouille

            There was no PO in or near the Bill in either the House or the Senate.

            Totally not passable.

            And you know that.

            "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012

            by bontemps2012 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:24:25 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't know that (0+ / 0-)

              The house passed HR3962, America's Affordable Health Care Act, in November of 2009. It contained a Public Option. The bill was sent to the Senate where The PO was removed. The bill was then returned to the House by the Senate. The House accepted it without the PO in 2010.

              "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

              by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 11:27:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  no (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bontemps2012, auron renouille

                the senate passed theirs first; then kennedy died.  when brown replaced him, our 60-vote threshhold went out the window.  so whatever the house produced was DOA.  

                * that * is what happened; the senate didn't remove anything from the house's bill.  the house instead took up the senate's bill with the fixes to be added.

                Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:08:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think one of us has our facts wrong (0+ / 0-)

                  I know the House Bill, HR3962, was passed in November 2009 and the Senate bill, HR 3590, was passed on Dec 24 2009. So it appears to me that the House bill was passed first.

                  Is there another Senate health care bill that I missed?

                  Wiki page

                  "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

                  by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:21:28 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  okay, they didn't pass theirs first. oops (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    bontemps2012

                    but that doesn't change much of what i said, really.

                    The house passed HR3962, America's Affordable Health Care Act, in November of 2009. It contained a Public Option. The bill was sent to the Senate where The PO was removed.
                    that is not how it went down.  the senate voted on their own version of the bill, without looking at the house's.  then the house voted on the senate bill, because no way was the bill going to survive little 'r' reconciliation between the two chambers once brown took office.

                    it was the bill the senate had already passed or nothing, essentially.

                    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                    by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:52:40 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hey we are making progress (0+ / 0-)

                      Can't agree with you on the reconciliation/Brown point. As I understand it, reconciliation is used to avoid a fillibuster and so the Brown  thing was not important since the Dems still had a majority.

                      "Live as if you will die tomorrow. Learn as if you will live forever.", Mohandas Gandhi

                      by Bubbatoby on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:32:41 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  that's why i specified "little 'r' reconciliation" (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        bontemps2012, auron renouille

                        the normal legislative process is that the house passes a bill, the senate passes a bill, then they get together and hash out the differences.  that hashing out is called reconciliation.

                        then there's Reconciliation, which is the senate thang.

                        Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                        by Cedwyn on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 04:35:18 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  two important details about senate reconciliation (0+ / 0-)

                        it has limited application, i.e. budgetary questions, and most anything passed via reconciliation comes with sunset provisions.  like the bush tax cuts; that's why they were set to expire absent congressional action.  dems extended them for another year, which brings us to now.

                        Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                        by Cedwyn on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 08:50:48 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

      •  But it remained a bill. The ACA is law. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        glorificus

        isn't that the point?  Lots of bills are proposed.

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