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View Diary: Conservatives celebrate their victory (160 comments)

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  •  We can all cherry pick (28+ / 0-)

    stupid comments from the other side that support our point of view.  That said, congrats on your first diary, we will look forward to more.  I am still waiting for all those who said that putting the chained CPI proposal on the table inevitably meant that Obama would have to eventually give in on that point to admit they were wrong.

    Still enjoying my stimulus package.

    by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:08:57 AM PST

    •  Unfortunately You will Likely Be Waiting A Long (7+ / 0-)

      time....most of them won't even admit to themselves that they were wrong, much less apologize to anyone else,

    •  We have two months (12+ / 0-)

      til the next crisis.  Plenty of time to give away the store.  

      If the Republicans ever find out that Barack Obama favors respiration, we'll be a one-party system inside two minutes. - Alan Lewis

      by MadRuth on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 06:08:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And who will ONCE AGAIN be creating the crisis? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        radv005, chrismorgan, 3goldens

        The GOP.

        Over and over they are the ones 'creating the crisis'.

        Once again, the ones holding the country hostage for the sole benefit of the 1%.

        •  But now the public is starting to see it is them (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BusyinCA, owlbear1, helpImdrowning

          It's taken years but the notion that both sides do it is eroding away. Poll after poll has been showing that Joe and Jane average-citizen is starting to see the GOP as the bringers of drama while Obama and the Dems are looking like the adults in the room. I'm not enamoured with our sides overwillingness to offer compromise too easily, but I can't see how the Neocons came away with much out of the deal. And I think our side will get more slack from the public in general which may eventually translate into more leverage down the road. So long as Obama refuses to play the debt ceiling game again I think we'll be starting off on the right foot.

        •  But why blame Thugs or push our frames (and truth) (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dotdash2u, BusyinCA, owlbear1

          when we can just blame BO and Ds?

          Try this: Thugs wanted to give trillions more to the rich (Mr.1%s 20% tax cut).  Instead, they will have to pay hundreds of billions more.  

          It's a start.  

          Now let's work for a Sane Congress in 2014, and get the rest of the stolen bouty back from these pirates!

      •  we have several hours (0+ / 0-)

        until the next crisis thanks to House GOP this afternoon.

        mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

        by wewantthetruth on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:07:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ha (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jabney, radv005
      I am still waiting for all those who said that putting the chained CPI proposal on the table inevitably meant that Obama would have to eventually give in on that point to admit they were wrong.
      Good luck with that - Two things are certain in the land of the Obama crush:

      1) Obama cannot ever be wrong.
      2) Obama cannot ever be wrong.

      •  Not a crush. (12+ / 0-)

        A clear eyed appreciation of a President doing an amazing job considering his opposition.

        There is a difference but it doesnt seem so to the Must Be Disgruntled Set.

        Still enjoying my stimulus package.

        by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:23:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Have you guys ever admitted Obama was right? (5+ / 0-)

        I don't really recall it at all.

        Obama could run into a burning house and save a kitten and a baby and you'd complain that he didn't grab the fine china on the way out.

        When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

        by PhillyJeff on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 09:19:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  well (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens

          when he actually does something this heroic I'll be more than happy to recognize it. Until then, however, let's keep the pressure on.

          I'm not sure what the point of Dkos would be if it were just a fan site.

          •  So Obama hasn't done anything right in 4 years (0+ / 0-)

            And we're the ones who are irrational? Sigh.

            When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

            by PhillyJeff on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 12:06:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  'Until then'? ::sigh:: U just proved his pt, Radv (0+ / 0-)

            Regardless of what you think about this deal, only a troll would not admit that BOs done a lot of things right over the last 4 years (as well as some things wrong, but that's inherent in the mark-I human).

          •  Thanks (0+ / 0-)
            when he actually does something this heroic I'll be more than happy to recognize it. Until then, however, let's keep the pressure on.
            It's important to realize that in this game of 11th dimensional chess, we have to apply pressure to the president.  It serves three purposes:  

            1) Strengthens our voice and helps pump life into participatory government.
            2) Pushes the margins of acceptable debate further to the left where we want them.  I mean, come on, just a few years ago they were seriously talking about "privatizing" (read: robbing blind) the SS trust fund.
            3) Forces the president to keep it real.  I happen to believe that he's much more liberal than he lets on, and our voices probably help remind him of that even in the midst of the whirlwind of pragmatic bullshit he's forced to deal with.

            So thanks for pushing left and not compromising.

    •  This is just a stopgap deal (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MewZ, Battling Maxo, 3goldens

      We'll see if chained CPI is included in the "Grand Bargain" in 2 months.

      See the children of the earth who wake to find the table bare, See the gentry in the country riding out to take the air. ~~Gordon Lightfoot, "Don Quixote"

      by Panama Pete on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 07:06:33 AM PST

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    •  Chained CPI is coming (8+ / 0-)

      It's a good thing that Obama reserved that bargaining chip for the round in two months. But he obviously regards it as a bargaining chip, and he wants to keep it on the table.

      Other than that, on the whole, I agree with the diarist. More was accomplished in this deal than meets the eye. For one thing, the estate tax - even though in weakened form - is secure for the foreseeable future, a great blow to Republican dreams. They had and have the rhetorical advantage on the "death tax" - I know several die hard Democrats whom the propaganda has bludgeoned into believing it's unfair. But now the billionaire's toadies have lost the issue.

      This deal - as far as it goes - is all good news for the economy. No spending cuts at all; important stimulus restored - for the people who need it most - with the unemployment extension. Middle class tax increases, including the AMT, off the table. An improving economy will strengthen Obama's hand in negotiations to come.

      But the most striking thing, for me, is that nothing which Obama ever said was off the table wound up in the agreement. That bodes well for the debt ceiling brouhaha to come (and alas, poorly for chained CPI); BHO has said as starkly as possible that it is not going to be a subject for negotiation. I think we'll find he meant it. He also told Fluffy on Sunday that if Republicans think the next round will be all spending cuts and no revenue, they "have another think coming".

      Obama's cheerleading squad often imagines him to be more liberal than he really is, and take ambiguous positions to be in agreement with them. When that proves wrong, many fall out of the cheerleading squad. But, aside from the galling exception of civil liberties, and some foolish nice-making in the first two years, when he draws a clear line in the sand, he doesn't allow it to be breached.

      The proof will be in the late February pudding.

      •  You are confused. The cheerleading squad (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Beetwasher, Nova Land, wewantthetruth

        mostly stick with him through everything (I being one of them). It is the perpetually disappointed that scream, cry and beat their chests. I think you are confusing the two. No strongly pro-Obama person that I read thinks he is more liberal than he is. They are just realistic and know that this is not a liberal country.

        "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

        by rubyr on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:36:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep, they've succeeded in gerrymandering (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          chrismorgan

          the fuck out of the rather more liberal country we might otherwise be.

          That and the fact that 40% of eligible voters didn't vote, the majority of which, in my estimation, should they have voted would have reflected a more liberal country.

          Scream, cry and beat their chests. The alternative would be a passive acceptance of all things? Shall we have no criticism or commentary or airing of thoughts at all? Would that make you happy? Contentment in mediocracy even as that is constantly being eroded?

          •  I don't see the results of President Obama's (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            chrismorgan, Lying eyes, jakedog42

            time in the White House as being mediocre in the least. To me, he is far and away the most liberal president in a long, long time.

            The alternative is not a passive acceptance of all things. The alternative is waiting to see what REALLY happens before screaming, crying and beating chests. The alternative is to get off the "I am so disappointed and betrayed" track and onto a
            path that might be productive. This behavior has happened over and over and over and the chest beaters always prophesize the worst, which has not happened, yet, and never acknowledge that they were wrong when the worst does not come to pass, as has often happened.

            "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

            by rubyr on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:46:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  you're not going to get rid of us chest beaters (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              3goldens, jakedog42

              And I think that's a really, really good thing. You might chastise us and make us feel bad, and you might come up with derogatory terms like "chest beaters" and that we "scream" and "cry", but that's really true, is it?

              If there is one thing this country was and should be based on is the expression of opinion, even it is sounds like ranting to you. Were is not for those of us that push and prod and grouse and make life uncomfortable for the status quo and point out the need to further press for better outcomes we would all be the lesser for it. We are also with you, BTW, not against you. And we also work hard behind the scenes and contribute money and get to the polls. So maybe see the advantage of hearing other thoughts, opinion, and even tolerate the more strident viewpoints as all part of the process.

              Finally, I did not intend to say, and don't think I really did say, that "the results of President Obama's time in the White House as being mediocre". In some things yes, he has been terribly mediocre, and it does no good to ignore that. But yes, on the whole, I'm very happy to have him in the White House indeed. I also see a lot more potential in him than I think he even gives himself credit for and I think many others here do to, and herein lies our frustration: we hold out the hope for an even greater legacy for him even as he does confront incredible obstacles and resistance: we see that too, we really do.

              •  Reread your words. You said mediocre. I am (0+ / 0-)

                not talking about "So maybe see the advantage of hearing other thoughts, opinion, and even tolerate the more strident viewpoints as all part of the process." I am talking about a group of people who say the same freaking thing no matter what is going on and who constantly prophesize things that never happen and  diss the President until they are proven wrong and then they go to ground only to rise up and say the same thing all over again until they are, again, proven wrong and then they go to ground and over and over and over. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I can't help you. People who call the President an idiot are not people I can respect enough to listen to. I assure you that these people are not donating and working behind the scenes. Uh uh.  

                Happy New Year.

                "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

                by rubyr on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:40:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  This is what I said... (0+ / 0-)

                  "Scream, cry and beat their chests. The alternative would be a passive acceptance of all things? Shall we have no criticism or commentary or airing of thoughts at all? Would that make you happy? Contentment in mediocracy even as that is constantly being eroded?"

                  Obama is not even in that paragraph. But I won't say he isn't part of that thought. But it certainly does NOT translate as "the results of President Obama's time in the White House as being mediocre", as you tried to put those words in my mouth. NO matter how hard you try to make it so. Possibly being myopic about this is why you are also myopic on having dissenting views be aired? Possibly you would prefer a more totalitarian world where you could have control over all thoughts and manage all comments?

                  •  ... (0+ / 0-)

                    "Contentment in mediocracy even as that is constantly being eroded?"

                    You are speaking of the Obama presidency and discontentment over same. Put it together. That the statement applies to him is inherent in your argument. What else would you be talking about being mediocre? Coca cola? What? Own your shit.  

                    You are not trying to have a discussion, you are just an asshole that wants to be right and throw specious insults at me. I have no time for people like you and would not have engaged with you had I realized just what an asshole you are.

                    "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

                    by rubyr on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:24:32 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Since you can see the future (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wewantthetruth

        any chance you can give us a preview of the powerball numbers in the next 2 months or so?

        Must be a genetic defect among myself and the "Obama Cheerleading Squad" you're talking about that we can't see into the future. Thankfully, you can.

        I'm sure that if you're wrong, you'll be on here posting diaries apologizing for your attacks on the president and explaining why you were so off base. . . .

        I think those odds are about the same as me winning the powerball with or without your magic powers.

        When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

        by PhillyJeff on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 09:21:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's an odd reading of my comment (0+ / 0-)

          My reading of the future is based on only two things: my observation that Obama tends to get the things he most desires to get (and, incidentally, that gets more true as he gains experience in his post); and that he has clearly stated a number of druthers.

          Among these have been increased taxes on the rich (now done, with a clearly stated intention for more to come); defense of the safety net (and so he prioritized unemployment insurance and EIC extensions over payroll holiday). He has also been clear he wants debt limit hostage taking ended, that he wants a Grand Bargain that reduces entitlement spending, and that he wants the Republicans to take responsibility for their entitlement reduction asks. All, except for the Grand Bargain pony, things I too am happy to cheer on.

          I simply take him at his word. There are, of course, other ways to cut entitlement spending than chained CPI; but it's something he's already put on the table once, and it's easier politically than most other options for reducing entitlements. I therefore expect - barring a mass movement on the level of Occupy - that it will be in the final deal this year. I also expect that whatever other entitlement cuts there are will be tailored to protect the bottom fifth, and that the President will stand firm on debt limit passage, and might give me one of the pleasant surprises he's good at generating every so often, and find a way to slay that dragon once and for all.

          Taking the President at his word isn't "attacking" him. Profound disappointment at his terrible civil liberties record attacks not him, but that disturbing record. I suppose that's where I draw the line between political supporters, one of whom I am, and the Cheerleading Squad, those who are willing to maintain either a cheerful or an uneasy silence on that record.

          Our best hope for limiting entitlement cuts is the GOP. Now that, thank Obama and whatever deity may be in charge, the President and his team have decided that they won't propose those cuts on the Elephants' behalf, they are going to find it very hard slogging to take ownership of their own nasty little desires. Chained CPI though, is obscure enough, and enough loved by BoBo, Ruth Marcus, and the rest of the Village idiots, that they will probably find the nerve to ask for it.

    •  Kevvboy, Kevvboy, Kevvboy... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher, wewantthetruth

      darling, they have been wrong about every freaking thing that they rose to hysteria and outrage about and they have never, ever admitted wrong or taken responsibility for their idiocy. Ever. Won't happen. They just get quiet and wait until there is another potential "disappointment" and then they go nuts and act like spoiled children, then they are proven wrong and they get quiet again and on and on and on. Been going on since the first month President Obama was in office. BTW, they have never been right to my knowledge.  

      "Southern nights have you ever felt a southern night?" Allen Toussaint ~~Remember the Gulf of Mexico~~

      by rubyr on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:31:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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