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View Diary: Wherein I remember what unites us liberals (44 comments)

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  •  I guess you need to understand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bubbanomics, OldSoldier99

    Indian culture to understand the meaning of the story.

    •  कमजोर तर्क है, भाई. (0+ / 0-)

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:41:13 AM PST

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      •  haha nice try (0+ / 0-)

        but all you care about is tark isn't it?

      •  Im actually impressed (0+ / 0-)

        that you took the time to do that. But that shows no understanding of my culture, just that you know how to use translator in google or something.

        •  (I had to use a translator... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Renee

          ...because I can't type Hindi characters on this keyboard. I lived in India for a couple years and can speak a little Hindi and Gujarati -- sorry to break my "no comment" pledge, but I wanted to explain it wasn't just a poke in the eye to you via Google Translate!).

          it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

          by Addison on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:56:00 AM PST

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          •  haha thanks that's good to know (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Addison

            I appreciate that youre trying to learn about other cultures. And youre welcome to comment here, just be reasonable, please.

            And if you have a question about my implication please ask and I can explain it to you. Our stories about war are actually used to illustrate courage in our day to day lives.

            •  Thank you for the space to comment. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Renee, coolelegans

              Indeed. The Bhagavad Gita is not an archery manual, after all, it's about the soul and fate. I just see the real possibility of people being hurt through bad negotiating strategy and, in the language of the story, no moral qualms associated with negotiating well in this situation. As a story to be personally applied, about how we need to resist the temptation to destroy ourselves to save ourselves, yes, I agree. We shouldn't let constant defeats make us into monsters. As politically-applied, however, I very much disagree that to negotiate well would've been morally corrosive in this case. I think that when applied politically in this situation, the story becomes not about the soul, but about capitulation that merely hurts people. That was the root of my reaction, and was what I intended to say with my way too overly-broad and unnecessarily derisive comments. To the extent that you were talking about personal reaction to constant defeat because of moral steadfastness, I agree with you that this can be noble.

              it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

              by Addison on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 11:21:51 AM PST

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              •  thank you for your kind comments (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Addison

                And you might be right, about the politics. You might be right that this is a loss. And you are right to feel disappointed. And we shouldn't capitulate, that's ideal. But my story is for the not so ideal situation. That is all.

                And your comment was I believe a misunderstanding not insulting, and I think tensions are a bit high right now. No apology necessary. We are both on the same side.

    •  That may be true. (2+ / 0-)
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      Renee, bubbanomics

      Uncoupling the end of the story from your larger goal in writing the diary, which I recommended because I agree with it, If someone tries to hurt me, making sure they can't do it again is my first priority.
      Were I the king in your story, the invader's head would have been on a pike the first time he was defeated.
      And if, following that, I defeat a second invader....
      Honestly? I'd really take a good, hard look at why people keep invading me. :)

      "Everything I do is blown out of proportion. It really hurts my feelings." - Paris Hilton

      by kestrel9000 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:47:03 AM PST

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      •  but thats my point (2+ / 0-)
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        Renee, bubbanomics

        its natural and obvious to reach that response. That's my first thought too. But that's not what Indians value. And that's why my father took the time to tell the tale. It has morals.

        •  Yes, I agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bubbanomics

          It does. In another thread this morning, someone came out of nowhere, went off topic, and called me a person without morals.
          I believe they believe that.
          But what they don't understand is that my values differ from theirs in a few respects, but more importantly, we SHARE more values than that person realizes or wants to admit to themselves, because they felt an emotional need to demonize me.

          That's my first thought too. But that's not what Indians value.
          I accept that for you. This is what I hope you can understand and accept represents a core part of my values system.  This is rooted in the laws of physics as much as anything else:
          If someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger, you are going to die.  Laws, public opinion, ethics, ideals, treaties, or personal preferences will not prevent your death.

          As a Buddhist sage observed, "If you understand, the world is the way it is; if you do not understand, the world is the way it is."

          The way of the world is force. You may not like that. You may choose not to believe it.  But it is true.  The world is ruled by force.    

          Public opinion is worthless.  It will not stop any weapon.  Law is nothing but rules you apply after you have subdued people by force.  Laws, without being backed up by more force, are not worth the ink they're written with.  

          What keeps you alive and free is not economics, philosophy, ethics, negotiations, treaties or laws.  It is recognizing, and preparing for, the fact that the first responsibility for your own defense rests with you yourself. These are the only things standing between us and the grave.

          "Everything I do is blown out of proportion. It really hurts my feelings." - Paris Hilton

          by kestrel9000 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 11:02:54 AM PST

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