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View Diary: House Craziness destroying our ability to make progressive critiques!!! (108 comments)

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  •  where do you draw the line... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens

    between decent and stupid?

    There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

    by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:18:59 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Hmmm... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jbou

      that sounds like something you ought to be able to turn into a one-liner

      "Every now & then your brain gifts you with the thought, 'oh, that's right, I don't actually give a **** about this.' Treasure it" -- jbou

      by kenlac on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:27:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Easy, (8+ / 0-)

      if that's a line you want to draw for some reason. Trying to think of Obama as "stupid" is a great laugh, so thanks. I needed that ;)

      "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

      by cotterperson on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:30:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  really? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens

        so basically you are saying that at no point this process of negotiating with the obviously suicidal House Gop is stupid?

        Sometimes even smart people do stupid things.  

        There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

        by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:35:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  in your effort (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson

          to lead into something negative about Obama, you may be stretching this rather thin point a bit too far. That's not what s/he said.

          We are often so identified with whatever thoughts we may be having that we don’t realize the thoughts are a commentary on reality, and not reality itself. -- Gangaji

          by Mnemosyne on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:32:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  What is the alternative? (6+ / 0-)

      We do not control the house.

      Maya Angelou: "Without courage, we cannot practice any other virtue with consistency. We can't be kind, true, merciful, generous, or honest."

      by JoanMar on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:37:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the House GOP are suicidal... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        murrayewv, chantedor

        let them proceed to jump. It is like chemo therapy you have to kill some cells in order to get rid of the cancer. At least we can all get some weed in Colorado and Washington to help with the side effects.

        There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

        by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:47:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe you can. But not the poor counting on the (0+ / 0-)

          EIC. Not the working poor who will have hundreds of dollars less in their paychecks. Not the long term unemployed who will have to live on...I don't know, what do you live on without a job or unemployment benefits? Not the school systems whose budget will be broken by milk prices of $8/gallon. I guess water is OK for our kindergartners and their armed guards.

          It's fine to want it "break" the Republicans who won't do the job they were elected to do.  It's fine to be glad we are going over the cliff to point out that we don't care if they shoot our hostages or not. Because we have a bigger picture that we think matters more. But being willing to let people begin to suffer immediately just to show we are as tough as they are, or even to make a valid political point isn't something I'm happy about or something I think my government should take lightly.

          I don't really understand why having the people I mentioned above in even more precarious financial shape in 60 days makes it more likely the President won't cave during those negotiations.  To me it seemed that having the most at-risk people safe before we resumed these negotiations might be a good strategy. But I guess having millions of people suffering will help the President fight back somehow.  

          "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

          by stellaluna on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:08:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  hundreds less in their paycheck? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            3goldens, chantedor

            as a member of the working poor I appreciate your concern but I will lose a twenty dollar bill a paycheck, if I lost hundreds I'd owe my employer money.

            the milk deal is separate.

            Everyone is going to take a hit, no one is going to be destroyed by falling off the financial curb and we can weaken the House GOP.

            There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

            by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:17:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  My understanding is that the milk deal was part (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chantedor

              Yes, sadly some make so little that it might be less than $100. But the average I've seen is at least $200 a month some closer to $300.  That is a lot of money to families who spend everything they make.  And I'm sorry if I seemed like I was picking on you specifically. I know that you do care about these people too. I personally will be OK either way. But I am uncomfortable pretending that things like extended UI benefits or increased taxes don't matter. Especially since I think the rich can starve us out on the taxes deal. They don't need their tax breaks like people below 200K or even 400K, definitely below 50K need theirs. I'm afraid we are putting ourselves in a weaker position because more people will be held hostage.

              "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

              by stellaluna on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:39:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  It would be perfectly logical (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, chantedor

        for the prez to simply walk away at this point.  He's wasted enough time and bills are supposed to originate in the House.

        "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." Historian Barbara Tuchman

        by Publius2008 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 02:07:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  As opposed to? (0+ / 0-)
      •  killing the cancer (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybersaur

        stop negotiating with the House GOP, go over the cliff, which is really a series of curbs, and let the GOP finally eat itself.

        There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

        by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 01:49:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Over the cliff is a reversion to a more (0+ / 0-)

          regressive tax structure; burdening lower income families more with the share tax payments.

          That does not kill the cancer. It exacerbates it.

          •  once you're over the curb... (0+ / 0-)

            you can climb back up it and you're in a better position to do more for the people who have less.

            There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

            by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:17:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  How's that? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              chantedor

              Republicans want to flatten the tax structure. They are happier going over the cliff than not. If the top tax bracket goes over the cliff, they want everyone else to also. So the tax structure, regardless of net revenues, flattens and never moves progressive. That is the issue at hand. And the cliff is a loss for progressives.

              Political leverage is gained only if the House blocks this deal. Otherwise we are where we are with the deal that's been approved by the Senate.

              •  how do you figure? (0+ / 0-)

                after the cliff you have a situation where the GOP is set up to have to vote against tax cuts. It has already been explained that we are better off as a country and politically if we go over the curb. kos posted an explanation on the front page.  

                There will always be someone gauging you with a tolerance meter. Deeming you acceptable or evil. They're the best to offend.

                by jbou on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:30:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  They haven't had to vote against tax cuts (0+ / 0-)

                  so far. What's gonna change?

                  Either way the highest tax bracket is going to raise to the same level. And they supposedly want to pay the debt now, while a Democrat is in the White House. How better than on the backs of the middle and lower classes?

                  This magical leverage is a myth. The issue isn't the debt. Everyone seems to know that, but when it's time for negotiations the left adopts the right's argument.

                  If Kos thinks a regressive tax structure is good for the nation...

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