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View Diary: Boehner finds way forward on fiscal cliff votes (424 comments)

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  •  I don't think it is unimportant (17+ / 0-)

    that the Senate voted 89-9 to raise taxes on the rich.  That is the first time Republicans have done that since 1996.  That is not a small victory for BHO.

    Still enjoying my stimulus package.

    by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:39:53 PM PST

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    •  I don't know man, the vast majority of the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      6412093, Matt Z, Laconic Lib

      Bush cuts are extended and unemployment benefits can't be held hostage again for a year. OK there's nothing negative about that I guess.

      I don't really see much improvement from a week ago in that scenario either. I am not saying this is Pr. Obama's fault, but is it really something to cheer?

      It's like scoring a field goal late in the game down 50 - 0. Well, at least we weren't shut out.

      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

      by ranger995 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:44:16 PM PST

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      •  Sorry, I disagree. (9+ / 0-)

        It has been the major point of honor, the huge governing principle of all Republicans since 1996 to refuse ALL tax increases.  Reversing that will be a huge accomplishment if BHO can bring it off.

        Still enjoying my stimulus package.

        by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:45:43 PM PST

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        •  So, it is a political victory then? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Desolations Angel, cslewis, Asak

          Great, we got some Republicans to vote for something they would normally not vote for. YAY!

          With such a lop-sided vote, couldn't it have been possible to get a much better deal in the new Senate after having gone off the cliff?

          I don't see how that accomplishes something great. The fact we are still facing austerity measures very soon doesn't make me want to cheer any political victories right now.  

          "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

          by ranger995 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:53:18 PM PST

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          •  Once you have got them (4+ / 0-)

            to vote for one tax increase it should be easier to raise revenue and to make deals that keep the economy from being held hostage.  It is not an overwhelming victory.  It is a step in the right direction.  Their insistence on denying government the proper amount of revenue has caused a great deal of harm.  So it is not a hollow or just a "political" victory, it is actually a key to governing as a liberal.  You gotta have the money.

            Still enjoying my stimulus package.

            by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 04:23:48 PM PST

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            •  When do you think the next opportunity to raise (0+ / 0-)

              taxes will be?

              This is the opportunity right here and now, because it is really not raising taxes but letting cuts expire.

              It's hilarious that you don't believe that any deal could be cut after going over the cliff at all, while at the same time you think that somehow the Democrats could actually get a bill with new tax increases.

              When is that going to happen? I suppose right after they propose the improvements to the ACA or tackle climate change.

              I agree my idea would not be easy, but really? What happens in 60 days now? If you think the Republicans would not pass any kind of comprehensive package now, what are the budget and sequester talks going to look like?

              Oh well, I guess we're going to find out.

              "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

              by ranger995 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:02:47 PM PST

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        •  Did I miss it? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dance you monster, ranger995

          When the GOP voted for a tax increase?  All of the Bush era tax cuts, and the Obama 2010 extension, expired at midnight last night.  Every single piece of this legislation, even the parts that the GOP hates, are better, or at worst the same, than the Clinton era tax rates.  Nobody on either side voted for a tax increase, since taxes technically had already gone back up to Clinton era rates.

          If the House passes this (and God knows they aren't going to do it until the last possible moment), the GOP will have completely won this stand-off.  Remember, Obama won the election.  Dems control the Senate.  And, in two days, the situation for the GOP gets worse, not better.  Any deal better than what Obama campaigned on is a win, and this is a shellacking.

          99% of George W. Bush's tax cuts have now been made permament.  Dividend rate cuts have been made permament.  PERMANENT!  That has been the GOP agenda for 12 years.  And, now they've finally got it.  The estate tax rates/exemptions are far lower than what they'd been under Clinton - also made permament.  AMT fix - permanent.  And, the GOP preserves the Debt Ceiling hostage for early 2013, and the UI benefits hostage for this time next year.

          And what did the GOP give up?  A few percentage points on the earned salary of the top 1%, who get the vast majority of their income from dividends and cap gains, plus a 5% increase on cap gains - to 20%, which is what you pay on income of what, $50K?.  UI benefits for one year, which, as I said above, can be held hostage again next year, and the few bags of beads used to buy Manhattan.

          And, don't kid yourself, chained CPI is the LEAST the Dems will give up in the debt ceiling deal in February.

          Complete.  GOP.  Win. - that is if the House GOP doesn't screw it up.    

          •  Hm. (0+ / 0-)

            Well, Charles Krauthammer on Politico calls the deal "a complete rout for Democrats" and "total surrender by Republicans."  You can't both be right.

            PS "Permanent" means "until the next election changes everyone's minds"

            Still enjoying my stimulus package.

            by Kevvboy on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 04:51:08 PM PST

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            •  They'll Say That Until The Deal Is Complete... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mightymouse

              I'm sure when we tune into Fox tomorrow, they'll be singing a different tune.  

              Also, Krauthammer is always wrong.  

              "The only hope is to keep the Republicans from shredding the safety net one hostage crisis at a time." - Kentucy DeanDemocrat

              by Senor Frog on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:08:09 PM PST

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          •  Oh Noes! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Susan G in MN

            The GOP did NOT UNCONDITIONALLY SURRENDER on every damn point that every liberal on these hard breathing, screaming boards wanted!

            Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Grover Norquist and all GOP members of the House, Senate and at the state and local levels are all STILL ALIVE and have NOT committed suicide!!

            Faux Noise, the NRA, AEI, ALEC, C of C, and Carlyle Group are all STILL IN EXISTENCE!!

            And you know what all this means???

            The deal is a complete and utter failure/sellout/sin/travesty and the largest world catastrophe since a meteor strike in the Yucatan 65 million years ago....or something... in a cave.

            Sheesh. I'm going out for some fresh air....(snark if you're jaded.)

            Shalom.

            "God has given wine to gladden the hearts of people." Psalm 104:15

            by WineRev on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 05:15:04 PM PST

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      •  Grover Ok'd it (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CoExistNow, Senor Frog, worldlotus

        They were voting for a tax reduction because the vote was held after the Bush cuts expired.

        So the pledge lives.

    •  Also: Grover broke his lifelong anti-tax pledge. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vote4Obamain2012, Matt Z, worldlotus

      The choice of our lifetime: Mitt Romney, It Takes A Pillage or President Barack Obama, Forward Together.

      by FiredUpInCA on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 03:49:28 PM PST

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