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View Diary: It's Not 11th Dimensional Chess. The President Wants Working People to Clean Up His Mess (342 comments)

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  •  "$4 trillion" (4+ / 0-)

    You do realize that the "$4 trillion" figure only came about because this deal was made on January 1 (or 2), 2013 instead of December 31, 2012, right?

    The figure came from the CBO. On December 31, 2012 this deal was rated by them as roughly revenue-neutral - actually a little less than $100 million in positive revenue.

    On January 1, 2012 however, the Bush tax cuts were deemed to "have taken effect".  Therefore the deal became a "$4 trillion dollar" "gap".

    Really? That rivals the "trillion dollar platinum coin"!

    Let's see if I have this straight? Obama managed to screw the economy out of $4 trillion because the Republicans delayed a vote on the bill by one day????

    Just like the "fiscal cliff". Another manufactured talking point that is meaningless. Here's another - "permanent" tax cuts.

    Oh wait. I think I see the sky falling!!!

    There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

    by hillbrook green on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:06:00 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  OK, then please tell me how much government (7+ / 0-)

      revenues are projected to lag expenditures over the next decade.

      After all, that's what is important at the end of the day.  And I see no way that the projected revenue increase of about $60 billion per year any way comes close to plugging the massive gap in the deficit.

      Or, to put it another way, federal government revenue is currently at about 18% of GDP while outlays are at ~ 23% - none of that changes substantially with this "deal" in a way that would make my figure of $4 trillion substantially different

      •  As I just pointed out (3+ / 0-)

        projections are just projections based on the current situation.

        It is not "your" figure. It came from the CBO. And because of the way that the CBO figures it, the "figure" went from +$100 million to -$4 trillion in one day.

        Is that your idea of reality?

        Know anybody who is relying on unemployment benefits right now? Maybe you could explain to them why this deal is so heinous.

        Know anyone employed in the Wind Energy field or anyone who is concerned about the health of the biosphere? Maybe you could explain to them how extending the wind energy credits for another year is so heinous.

        Know any "middle-class" families who are struggling in this economy? Maybe you could explain to them why extending their tax cuts is so heinous.

        Just like the "fiscal cliff", this idea of government deficits being so "catastrophic" is just another "scary bogeyman" trumpeted by the MSM to keep everybody scared and listening to their commercials.

        Was the "end of the world" on Dec 21, 2012 as big a deal as everybody made out? Personally I didn't see much death and destruction....

        Rumors of the "end of the world" via "deficits" are very exciting.... but not very realistic. The time for cutting deficits is when the economy is good, not when the economy is bad. The economy is bad right now, so the government is doing the right thing by NOT concentrating on eliminating deficits. Just take a look at what happened in Japan since the 1990's and what is happening in England and other deficit-hawk countries now. Now that is austerity and deficit-reduction at work.

        There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

        by hillbrook green on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:32:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's just crazy! (6+ / 0-)
          It is not "your" figure. It came from the CBO. And because of the way that the CBO figures it, the "figure" went from +$100 million
          there is NO WAY in hell that the CBO was projecting a budget surplus over the next decade based on anything resembling "reality"

          in any event, I didn't think that you could supply the figure I requested - thanks for confirming that suspicion.

          •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FiredUpInCA, Vote4Obamain2012

            If you are going to listen to all these figures being tossed about, you really ought to pay more attention to the context of the statements.

            I'm pretty sure you didn't come up with that "$4 trillion" figure on your own.

            All that I am doing is parroting what I heard on those "news" outlets during all the whoop-de-doo over the "fiscal cliff" thingy. I believe it was Jessica Yellin of CNN who pointed out this particular pearl of information.

            In point of fact, the $4 trillion is a CBO figure for the deal because it was made after December 31, 2012. The same office reported that the deal would improve revenues by less than $100 million if it had been made by December 31, 2012.

            Surely you are not implying that the MSM lies????

            It's all just figures plucked out of probability exercises. If the economy were to magically be restored completely tomorrow, the same office would be reporting that the "projected deficit figures" are no longer valid.

            Nothing is static. The "deficit crisis" comes and goes as determined by political forces. It's just a bunch of hooey designed to ensnare gullible citizens in a pit of self-despair.

            Worry about tomorrow if you must worry. A decade from now is too unknown to worry about.

            There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

            by hillbrook green on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 11:01:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  In this case (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              badger, poligirl, Words In Action
              Worry about tomorrow if you must worry.
              the situation is even more dire - if by "tomorrow" you mean next year, there's an approximately $900 billion hole in the budget to be plugged by about 1/15th that much in new revenues.

              Clearly, not a good situation.

              Thus the focus on the longer term I suppose (since there is simply no "reality-based" way to solve this problem in one year!).

              •  Well it's much later... (0+ / 0-)

                but I'm still sticking with: deficits don't matter, especially in bad economic times.

                Unless you're a Republican, of course.

                There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

                by hillbrook green on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 03:07:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  the "permanent" claim always makes me (7+ / 0-)

      roll my eyes.

      for pete's sake, nothing int the Constitution is even absolutely 'permanent.' We make these things called 'amendments.' And any tax laws can just be overwritten by new ones.

      I wish people would quit using the word 'permanent' in the context of our laws.

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