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View Diary: Naked Capitalism: $205 billion in obscured corporate subsidies in Fiscal Cliff bill (updated) (195 comments)

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  •  Not yesterday, today. (33+ / 0-)

    The $4 trillion is based on the post-fiscal cliff baseline.  So the net deficit reduction from all of this is close to zero.  Proof that Republicans are not gunning for deficits but for the programs that make Democrats popular.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 08:41:00 PM PST

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    •  The net is not zero, isn't it an increase of 4T (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bobswern, gerrilea, caul

      over the next ten years.

      •  Compared to projections on Dec 30 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Citizenpower

        it is zero.  Not going through the fiscal cliff, automatic sequester charade would have added $4 trillion over ten years to the debt.

        Doing nothing after midnight January 1 would have reduced the debt over 10 years by $3.97 trillion according to CBO.  The bill reversed that reduction, pulled in a little money from taxes on incomes over $400K and spent that savings on the doc-fix and farm bill provisions.

        50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

        by TarheelDem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:54:52 AM PST

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        •  So the net is that we are $4T deeper in debt (0+ / 0-)

          that we would have been if we just let them expire, that is the math I am interested in and so is Rachel Maddow.  She had a great segment on this tonite.  Everyone should watch and digest, these Tax Cuts whether they are Bush's or Obama's were/are a very bad idea.

          •  But that also means (0+ / 0-)

            That there would be a relatively quick $250 billion loss of government spending in the economy over the next 12 months in addition to what is already written into the continuation of the FY 2012 budget figures as the FY 2013 level until Congress wrangles again.  That loss of demand in the economy would depress revenue immediately and offset the projected savings and not make the demand for cuts disappear.

            Yes, they are a very bad idea.  We've been governed by bad ideas for approaching two decades now.  But $4 trillion in cuts for real is also a bad idea.  And sunsetting the middle-class tax cuts effectively would cut consumer spending as well.

            The system is broken because big money is calling the shots from K Street.  In both parties.

            50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

            by TarheelDem on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:41:13 PM PST

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    •  So dems agreed to this because... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MartyM, Ryvr

      ...why?

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

        Krugman thinks this deal is reasonable - his biggest concern is that the next deal may be a disaster if the President doesnt negotiate well.

        I was furious at Pres Obama about putting social security on the table, but in my opinion (and that of a number of progressives including Krugman) this bill is better than going over the fiscal cliff/curb/bluff/whatev - there are some good things in it to help students, working poor, renewable energy, etc, that bobswern should add to offer a balanced description of what's good and bad.

        The goal now is to pressure the dems not to cave on soc sec/medicare/medicaid.

        Dems in swing districts: INSIST your republican rep incr tax on the wealthy -gerrymandering makes rep vulnerable...swing district list: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1162387/48457188

        by grrr on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:43:42 AM PST

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      •  It pretty much returns the status quo (0+ / 0-)

        ...before the expiration of tax cuts and the automatic sequester of discretionary and military spending.

        Except, it leaves out that reversal of expiration of tax cuts for income, estates, capital gains of rich folks (defined differently in each of the cuts), effectively raising their taxes.

        And it extends the emergency unemployment program (addition 26 weeks of unemployment insurance payments).

        And it extends the current farm bill (and Food Stamps) at FY 2012 levels.

        And the wind and solar tax credits.

        And fixes a recurring problem with Medicare rates.

        And puts in place a surcharge on high incomes, high-value healthcare insurance,

        It does nothing to cut Social Security.

        It kicks the sequester to the next Congress, which will be a different political environment.

        It succeeded in dividing Republicans in the House.

        Now Tea Party folk are being told "the perfect is the enemy of the good." by Congressional Republicans.

        50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

        by TarheelDem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:48:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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