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View Diary: One only has to go to Redstate to see who won (314 comments)

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  •  The Trouble Is (0+ / 0-)

    That in this case, I think the arguments hating this deal have quite a bit of legitimacy on the Left.  There may have been a lot of very good reasons to suck it up as it related to this deal, I give folks that.  I too dreaded what would happen to the EITC and to unemployment benefits.  But as a matter of long-term economic policy this deal goes a long way to ensuring that Democrats will be in hostage-negotiation mode as it relates to the needs of the poor and working class on an ongoing basis (long after this President has gone back to Chicago), and gets nothing that actually stabilizes anything except for those at the high end of the economic food chain.  They got permanency on the very things that are slowly but surely choking the ability of the federal government to provide the services it is there to provide, in exchange for a comparatively (5-year) brief reprieve on slicing and dicing the social safety net.  Folks should be raising hell about those details, IMO.  They matter.

    But the key issue is that the Left's arguments are not emotional in the sense that they begin and end with emotions.  Most (but not all, to be sure) are raising hell over the details, on the Left. The right, in contrast, is raising hell based solely upon the detached principles of "no new taxes--ever" and "give Obama nothing, no matter what the cost."  Those are not rational, policy based arguments.  They are indeed an emotional reaction not just to the President but to the larger situation in which their entire strategy--give nothing even if it takes the country down--has now been at least facially compromised.

    So it is indeed inconsistent to say that Red Staters' angst should be looked to as a guide.  One group's angst is grounded in a more articulated understanding of the details.  The other is just raising hell because our beloved Black president got a "win."  (Even if I don't see it as a win, I see it as a temporary reprieve we'll all be paying for sooner than most of our representatives in Congress or the President are willing to admit.)

    •  from my POV I see the same types of comments (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sviscusi

      that combine obvious PERSONAL and irrational hatred coming from left and right.

      the exact same "betrayal" emotional arguments.

      and the same sort of willful ignorance when they're shown to be factually incorrect

      if those I refer to on the left had even a smidge of your sense of perspective, I'd have no issue.

      There may have been a lot of very good reasons to suck it up as it related to this deal, I give folks that.
      yeah trouble is, I don't see a lot of folks saying simple and mollifying things like that.

      and if you think the red staters are the only ones emotionally invested in whether or not the prez gets a "win" I dunno what to say.  seems to me that phenomenon exists here too.

      YMMV.

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:24:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Hear You (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal

        But I didn't say that the red staters were the "only ones" emotinally invested in a win for President Obama.  I said that their analysis begins and ends with those emotions and that this is the salient difference between what is occurring.  Sure folks are using over the top language--again--but that's same old same old.  I personally have given up trying to worry about that as long as they don't reach to the well of the racist crap you and I are both familiar with.  I just can't get bent about folks calling out a politician for "betraying" them or their principles, no matter who that politician is.  It's not the first time, and won't be the last, that this has happened.  President Obama is no different in that regard.  What may be different, and likely is different, is that the last time similar stuff happened (Clinton) there was no Daily Kos and no internet that allowed all that stuff to be seen in one place under bright lights.  I suspect that this is a factor both in terms of the level of emoting and the level of reaction to the emoting, in everyone.

        As far as me saying simple and mollifying things, now you know why I'm not a politician.  Because frankly if our side in Washington was willing to actually say "look, we know this sucks but we can't allow the folks that are just one check away from the wolf's door to be lost no matter what we think of what we have to give up" it would be a lot better.  But they won't, because the words "poor", "working poor" are dirty words in Washington when it comes to admitting motivations.

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