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View Diary: They're Coming For Your Social Security (36 comments)

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  •  If the President says growing the economy is best (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    al ajnabee, doc2, Deep Texan

    course of action to preserve spending on benefits, how on gods earth do you think your proposals will create the jobs necessary to grow the economy? If there are only 4 to 5 million fewer republicans than democrats, wouldn't derailing those people's businesses by strikes, boycotts, and picketing lead to unprecedented job loss for the democrats who work for republicans? Somehow shutting down the businesses of the 47 percent of the nation who voted differently than us seems ill conceived.

    "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

    by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 06:20:37 AM PST

    •  The threats on the debt ceiling need countering (0+ / 0-)

      The Republicans have made clear they're going to engage in some hostage-taking in two months to extract concessions on social security and medicare.  I'm not saying we boycott every Republican--just those who support this kind of hostage taking.  

      My assumption is that there is a smaller, more identifiable group of people who are behind these efforts and that we could crowd-source a targeted response.  Only half of people bother to vote and most Republican voters probably don't actually like the idea of their Social Security being cut or their country's credit rating falling.  Also, most of them don't really have much clout so there's little reason to target them.

      I'm aware that boycotts could (over the long term) have a negative impact on employees, but I think that is a risk worth taking to protect everyone's social security.  I also think we should be making special efforts to unionize Republican businesses and that this could be a potentially effective combination: consumer boycotts from the outside, unionizing on the inside all in the service of an economic justice movement.  

      "If you can't lower heaven, raise hell!" - Mother Jones

      by al ajnabee on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 06:35:46 AM PST

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      •  Part of what we have to do is decide on the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        al ajnabee

        alternative and then push it like hell. Chained CPI creates a terrible problem down the road when our youngish children are old and those grandchildren we hear about so much are just getting started, but have to figure out how to take care of Grandma because the SS is simply not up to it no matter how much she made working or Granddad did. It's a generation skipper getting THIS generation out of the problem but laying a bomb in the road for my new grandson when he is up and working and past his present point of identifying that thumb there as belonging to him. It makes much more sense to work raising the ceiling on the FICA to put more money into the pot, and then cutting off the ability of Congress to borrow back ever penny collected and pay with bonds paying a quarter of one percent. And would also make them admit that they have been even more careless with discretionary pork than they will admit, once the ability to silently fund things by cleaning out cash in SS is gone.

    •  Ya think? Sometimes I think (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan, Kvetchnrelease

      people here actually believe it possible for the govt to do nothing but print checks to everybody (and their doctors), with no revenue coming in other than from "the wealthy".

      •  I'm under no illusion (0+ / 0-)

        that the wealthy/the "republicans" are some abstract force.  

        In fact, I'm trying to think about the problem concretely: the way I see it, there are people in our communities who are supporting this insanity.  They live in the Fox News bubble and still can't believe Obama won.  

        I would love to see data on this, but I bet it's not much fun working for a Republican--or buying from one.  I mean, the party basically works to incentivize poor working conditions, no healthcare, and zero consumer protection.  I bet a lot of Republican-run workplaces are rife with low wages, sexual harassment, and consequently bad service.  In some ways, I see the consumer moves against Olive Garden, Walmart and Papa Johns as potential templates: maybe these jobs shouldn't exist.  Maybe you shouldn't be able to run a business like that--especially once you give away the game by drawing attention to the way you're trying to force the law to fit your business model.  So maybe what these businesses need is a lot of attention so that the workers can organize a union without fear of retaliation, get better wages and claw back some of the capital that Wall Street is basically just sitting on...

        "If you can't lower heaven, raise hell!" - Mother Jones

        by al ajnabee on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:08:29 AM PST

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        •  The wealthy are NOT the same (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          al ajnabee, Deep Texan

          thing as the Republicans. Most Republicans are middle or lower class, and over 40% of the wealthy are Democrats who vote for representatives that promise to raise their taxes. What kind of person actually believes in helping the less fortunate so much that they are willing to pay more themselves? Those people are called rich liberals, and as opposed to liberals who personally benefit from such policies, these liberals actually support these policies even though it costs them. That's a pretty good liberal if you ask me, and many people who are rich are in this group.

          The problem in this country isn't "the wealthy". It is a combination of "the greedy" (some of whom are wealthy) and the evangelical, most of whom support the GOP despite socioeconomic status.

          •  I completely agree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wewantthetruth

            And this is why I think an aggressive campaign against the greedy is so important.  I think they're vulnerable and I don't think we should allow people to continue personally benefiting from this abusive system.  

            I mean, I want to give money to wealthy liberals.  That's the kind of behavior we should be incentivizing.  What I'm asking is how do we organize such a thing and how can that be a tool for a larger progressive movement?

            What I'm asking is: don't businesses have a responsibility to speak out on behalf of their employees' retirement funds?  The whole system of withholding implicates them in any deal on social security, medicare and the debt ceiling.  If major businesses don't want to stand up for Social Security, shouldn't that be publicized?  If a businessman wants to fund politicians who attack people's ability to save for retirement, shouldn't there be consequences?

            "If you can't lower heaven, raise hell!" - Mother Jones

            by al ajnabee on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:39:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yes (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              al ajnabee, judyms9

              an agressive campaign on the greedy coming from two directions....grassroots but also white house and dems. get the message out and spend money behind it over the next three months.

              mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

              by wewantthetruth on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:47:42 AM PST

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          •  where do your statistics come from? (0+ / 0-)

            eom

            mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

            by wewantthetruth on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:43:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  "most republicans" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            al ajnabee

            are middle or lower class?

            maybe that is true and if it is, then they are very stupid people because their elected officials could give a shit less about them but as long as they have their guns I am sure that makes them happy.

            had this long argument the other day because  I said these people vote against their own economic best interests and clearly that is the case.

            mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

            by wewantthetruth on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 07:46:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Do the math. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              al ajnabee, Kvetchnrelease

              Romney garnered 47% of the vote. Even if the entire 1% voted for him (and they didn't - Obama got 42% of the vote of people with incomes over $250K), that means that 46% or the 99% voted for Romney. Clearly a lot of lower and middle class people in there, and a lot more than there even are rich people.

              •  Re election result survey: sobering conclusions (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                al ajnabee

                Can be gleaned from data. Most worrisome to me is majority of voters over 39 years of age voted Romney and majority of voters earning over $49,000 voted Romney. Moreover, the huge delta in voter education levels at or below college level is problematic in the long run.

                "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

                by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:51:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

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