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View Diary: Read it and weep (592 comments)

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  •  Bottom line (6+ / 0-)

    Bush has won the argument over his tax cuts.  None of the major candidates in 2008 (Clinton, Obama, Edwards) was for their repeal beyond those for over 250K - and Obama has never changed his position.

    The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

    by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:15:40 AM PST

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    •  other than (13+ / 0-)

      to state, over and over and over, that he'd let the 250k+ cuts expire. it's almost as if it was one of his leading campaign themes.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:23:50 AM PST

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      •  And in negotiations (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis

        that went to 400k.

        I think you are missing the larger point: to finance a more liberal government you need more revenue - and conceding on the cuts for everyone under 250K essentially made that very hard.

        Bush won because no Democrat argued against repeal of all of the cuts.  In fact, I don't ever remember a post HERE ever arguing for a repeal of all the cuts.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:31:17 AM PST

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        •  that has to do with the recession (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          grrr, 3goldens

          if the economy were really growing again we could let them all expire. as many of us have been explaining, we are in a demand crisis, which means we need more money in the hands of the middle class and the below middle class, all of whom are more likelyto spend it. but now we've made big budget cuts inevitable, which means we will be taking money out of the hands of the very people who need it, and whose spending the economy needs.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:36:08 AM PST

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          •  If you let them (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            grrr

            expire you take money out of the middle class too.  That was Delong's point below.

            Letting all of the cuts expire would probably push us back into recession (though this is hardly a calculation one can make with any degree of certainty).  

            This deal did have the UI extension - which is not nothing.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:40:15 AM PST

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        •  "Allow all the cuts to expire, (4+ / 0-)

          introduce Bills for lower-than $250K cuts immediately." Surprising that you missed 99.9%, or more, of the comments to this effect, as they were stated hundreds if not thousands of times.

          Also, the cuts didn't need repeal. They were "sunset" and would simply expire without actively voting to extend them.


          The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

          by Jim P on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:44:59 AM PST

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        •  So when Obama's (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          badger, chuckvw, 3goldens, George Hier

          word means Jack we are missing the larger point.

          I'll add that one to the list.

    •  Not quite (10+ / 0-)

      Both Edwards and Hillary ran on immediately rolling back -- not just letting expire -- the Bush tax cuts for those making above 200k, a number somewhat closer to middle class income. Of course, it's doubtful that either would've done so in the middle or a recession, but I'm not sure how you can say Obama hasn't "changed his position" considering he just signed a tax cut bill for those making up to 400 k (and has not once but twice refused to let the Bush tax cuts expire and then push for a legitimately middle-class tax cut.)

      Now, I'm no fan of tax cuts as a means of pumping up the economy and helping people but if there must be tax cuts they should be given to people who actually need money.

      •  I think that moves the goalposts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NYFM

        That was a discussion in the winter of 2007 - it is fair I think to say that the recession changed that discussion.

        The difference between 250K and 400K isn't huge - and given that this was done with a GOP House, I don't agree that this is somehow a betrayal by Obama.  

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:34:29 AM PST

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        •  It's the gradual normalization (12+ / 0-)

          and institutionalization of right-wing economic policy even as right-wing economic policy is losing credibility, as the piece highlighted in this post states quite well.

          Just a few years ago, the tax deal pushed through Congress on Tuesday would have been a Republican fiscal fantasy, a sweeping bill that locks in virtually all of the Bush-era tax cuts, exempts almost all estates from taxation, and enshrines the former president’s credo that dividends and capital gains should be taxed equally and gently.
          On top of the flawed notion that tax cuts are a good way to stimulate growth is the flawed notion that an income of 250 k is "middle class," and now smart liberals like you and Krugman are saying there's not much difference between 250 k and 400 k...
          •  That happened (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            david mizner, jjohnjj, chuckvw

            in 2008.  I keep saying this and no one really hears me - but the losses in the 2008 primaries were bigger than people understood.  It was there that we got Obamacare (there wasn't much difference between the major candidates on HCR) and we got the refusal to repeal all of the Bush tax cuts.

            The Democratic Party is defined in Iowa and New Hampshire - which is why I wanted a liberal to run in the primaries this time and at least set the stage for 2016.

            Hell - I think the biggest challenge is globalization - and that was always completely off Obama's agenda.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:48:32 AM PST

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          •  Shorter response (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            david mizner, chuckvw

            you are right.

            The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

            by fladem on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:54:43 AM PST

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