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View Diary: Read it and weep (592 comments)

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  •  This deal raises taxes on those 40k folks today... (14+ / 0-)

    ...with the payroll tax increase.  Obama choosing to not even fight for that is an utter betrayal every non-millionaire that voted for him.

    A person making 50k a year just saw their take home pay go down by $1,000 this year, thanks to the President's priorities.

    The bear and the rabbit will never agree on how dangerous a dog is.

    by fromer on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 09:22:28 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The payroll tax had to go up (7+ / 0-)

      This is the problem with tax "holidays."  They're sold as temporary and then there's political pressure to extend them indefinitely.

      The payroll tax, if made permanent, would have weakened Social Security.  And good luck trying to ever raise that figure again.

    •  According to Ezra Klein (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NYFM, fromer, badger, notrouble, elwior

      on MSNBC today, the White House WERE THE ONLY ONES fighting for the payroll tax cut extension, and were getting no support from either Reid or Pelosi (or anyone else in Congress, for that matter).

      •  that is deeply disappointing to learn... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens

        ...as is the fact that no one thought to fight for an increase in the payroll tax cap in exchange for an extension of the lowered rates until the economy improves.  This was a regressive economic policy choice.

        The bear and the rabbit will never agree on how dangerous a dog is.

        by fromer on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:42:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  But Redstate hated it (5+ / 0-)

      so it must be good - keep up.

      •  I love the argument that it's a good deal (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, George Hier, elwior

        because RedState or other conservative loons hate it, or the argument that Bernie Sanders voted for it, so that means it's a good deal.

        Both arguments are made by people who think that national politics is like high school, where all that matters is who's in with the cool kids, who the nerds are, and what the guy they elected homecoming king thinks.

        They might consider viewing policy choices on their merits, but I wonder if any of them have the intellectual capacity to even try to do that.

        In Soviet Russia, you rob bank. In America, bank robs you.

        by badger on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:56:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  That 2% is going into the worker's SS account. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      notrouble

      ... so it's a "tax increase" only relative to it's effect on current economic stimulus. In the long run, it's retirement savings - something the American workforce is sorely deficient in.

      We "traded it" for a 4.5% increase on incomes above $450k  - revenue that will be available for everything from infrastructure spending to food stamps.

      This deal was not optimal, but it wasn't a "betrayal" either.

      Have you noticed?
      Politicians who promise LESS government
      only deliver BAD government.

      by jjohnjj on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:22:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Are you really that clueless? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, Mr Robert, 3goldens

        The 2% has been going into the worker's "SS account" for the last two years, too. It's just been coming out of general revenues instead of paychecks.

        And it's only retirement savings if the government chooses to continue paying it out at some reasonable level. The President has already offered to make cuts in real benefits by offering the GOP chained CPI.

        In Soviet Russia, you rob bank. In America, bank robs you.

        by badger on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 10:59:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I stand corrected (0+ / 0-)

          Here's a link to a CS Monitor article, which you may offer (in place of ridicule) the next time someone repeats my misconception.

          Here's another one, from the NY Times. It remarks on fears that conservatives would attempt to revive the Republicans' old 2005 plan to allow workers to divert the 2% into IRAs when the Obama payroll tax holiday expired.

          Perhaps the Dems had a good reason to restore the payroll tax to "normal" now rather than let the TeaPuppets get interested in it later.

          Have you noticed?
          Politicians who promise LESS government
          only deliver BAD government.

          by jjohnjj on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 08:46:51 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Good lord, the payroll tax increase was necessary (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      notrouble

      Some of Amy Davidson's cited comments from the New Yorker were ridiculous.

      Yes, the "increase" impacts me.  100%.  And I was happy to see that the rate has returned to its former level.  It's called paying for something.

      On the one hand, people complain about how SS is under attack, but on the other hand suggest that the SS tax holiday should have been extended.  What's it going to be?  Supporting the long-term stability of SS (because that's what the payroll tax is for) or not?

      In an ideal world, the next stage in the upcoming budget, SS, and Medicare brouhaha would be to propose a substantial rise or elimination of the income ceiling for the payroll tax.  Long-term SS stability should not merely be a line in the sand for Democrats, it should be an impenetrable barrier.

      There is far too much "Democrats gave away the farm" and "Republicans now have the upper hand" overreacting going on here.  Yes, it is going to be ugly in the coming months, but with Republicans still in the majority in the House, by definition that guarantees continued ugliness, whether we "went over the cliff" yesterday or emerged with what actually happened.

      However, the malignant ugliness of Republican ideology will be on greater display as the year goes on, and the best thing that we can do is keep shining a light on it, and make certain that the MSM is there to see it and report it.

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