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View Diary: Listen Leverage Lost Logicians: Sellout Socialist Sanders Supported Senate Standard (293 comments)

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  •  some here are defintely calling for the bill (12+ / 0-)

    to be defeated

    Hell I've already seen the hyperventilation on 'austerity happens now' and worse

    I don't doubt that there are reasonable concerns but they don't seem to be being expressed much

    •  The valid concerns I've read this morning (17+ / 0-)

      Were in regard to the middle class having an increased tax rate. By middle class, I mean those making 40-50K a year, not eligible for the EIC. That's a valid concern. Their taxes didn't seem to go up much though. I am in that bracket myself although our family gets an EIC; still, I'm curious to see if our taxes do go up, although we usually get several K back in refunds. I don't do our taxes -- my husband does -- so I don't know a ton about this.

      I've also read concerns about what will happen in two months. I can share those concerns because who knows? The sequester will, I think, be rough in the same way that this fiscal cliff was contentious.

      The other concerns which I've read that strike me as valid is the shift from 250-400K. It would have been, I feel, a much stronger tax revenue source, and a Progressive one, and not impossible to get BUT it would have required going over the fiscal cliff with all of the things lost there from the EIC, the UI, the farm bill subsidies, Medicare, etc. (House Democrats, in their speeches, itemized out very well). So to do that would have been risky, and it's not just one part of that or another, but the entire thing. I am almost positive this is why Sanders wound up supporting this bill from his statements in the previous days.

      I saw people saying "Go over the cliff" and others saying "Don't go over the cliff," and I didn't know who to believe until I saw the Republicans screaming bloody murder about the whole thing. Then, I partly took my cue from them and basically just decided that the opposite of what they supported was probably sensible.

      This is my understanding of this, at any rate.

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      by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 11:11:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  In a DKos context... (4+ / 0-)

        ...I figure reality is somewhere between bobswern and AAMOM, which is a nice big haystack with more than a few needles for anyone who wants to find them.

        •  Aw, I kind of like them both... (7+ / 0-)

          Does that make me evil?

          I think it must.

          I'm not ace at understanding this all. It's pretty complicated. But this is what I gleaned from reading through mainly off-site comments and news stories this morning from some combination of political analysts and those who voted on the legislation, and again, the Republican response is, for me, a pretty big tell.

          I like Kovie's take on it down thread, as well as TomP's take here too: it's not ideal (actually, the fiscal cliff was designed to play out like the plot of the Hunger Games to make everyone miserable). It's not even good per se. But it's not something you'd want to see not voted on. Should we have gone over the cliff? I have no idea still... it would have hit some people hard, and I'm not really singing "Viva La Revolution!" from my Lazy Boy in Wine Country when I think we're better off avoiding anything that looks like the French Revolution or involves wingnutty armed militias. Call me a nutter for it if you will. I'll take reasoned, incremental reform any day over torching villages. Then again, whatever happened on the back end of this deal was kind of "le suck."

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          by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:09:35 PM PST

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          •  OMG EVIL (6+ / 0-)

            I think the last thing my white male suburban yuppie ass could credibly do is call for revolución. I accepted long ago that I'm plenty of people's definition of evil (i.e. apathetic). Hell, I work in marketing, so I might as well be the right hand of Satan.

            TomP had my favorite take on it all so far too, but as you may remember I've learned to chill the fuck out about a great many things, and accepting incremental sausage-making is certainly one aspect of that.

            I absolutely agree that the ongoing pie fight is a turnoff. It's unbelievably boring and makes everyone look stupid—especially when you consider that the mirror image of it is happening on RedState.

            •  Not exactly the mirror image (6+ / 0-)

              I've been reading Redstate pretty often, for the conservative take during the negotiations.

              They have a deep factional divide. But they don't go to personal insult, about their divisions, anywhere near so quickly as we do.

            •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)

              as a white female academic who works for a pittance yet enjoys my $3 brie and daily dolmas, I really have little to complain about (although my stupid duplex doesn't have a yard, and I like to complain bitterly about that; also, my neighbors are running a meth lab and we have snipers in the trees around their house about once a year, so there's that too).

              Marketing is far more evil than Literature. At least you get paid for what you do. I just run around the University teaching multiple low-paying jobs. Admittedly, I love what I do. All of it. Including the part where they don't pay me shit. It frees me up, emotionally. Plus I have summers off. Woohoo, travel-on-a-shoestring!

              You should see the politics on a State college campus sometime. I think that's what's tamed me to deep calm. The negotiations that go on are outright funny. You haven't lived until you've heard a Business Professor argue with an Environmental Studies Professor and a Women and Genders Studies Professor about "priorities" on campus. Heh. And yet, we've got to keep the ball rolling, so sausage-making it is.

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              by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:37:31 PM PST

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              •  I used to work for UCSB HR 10 years ago (3+ / 0-)

                I actually saw plenty of (and got an earful of) negotiation hilarity, mostly because the employee & labor relations office was in our department. The hilarity was actually pretty bleak more often than not. Sorting through underqualified employment applications with lifer bureaucrats was depressing, too.

                Come to think of it, I kind of miss being on the academic calendar.

                •  ROTFLMAO! Indeed! (5+ / 0-)

                  I work within earshot of one of the major financial offices right now. They have after hours meetings and never know/check/care if I'm even in office. They have some amazingly strange discussions. There are all sorts of conferences about five feet from my office, actually, since it's sort of opens out to a free conference room space for admin.

                  Livens it up. I've sat through many a meeting with my door closed thinking, "I really have to pee, but damned if I'm going out there."

                  Your former job sounds like a blast.

                  The academic calendar is truly awesome. Admittedly, I'm more of an actual research scholar than a bureaucrat; thus today, I should be writing. Instead, what am I doing? Hiding from my work, naturally. Sigh. I need to get back to it instead of frittering away on the fiscal cliff issue. My own deadlines are horrific and scary. Yuck! My husband keeps coming downstairs telling me to get over my angst already. Sage advice.

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                  by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:58:49 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  but, if I understand what happened correctly, (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive, FG, fuzzyguy

        the payroll tax goes back up which hurts people with lower incomes the most.
        It's ironic -- originally I was against the cut in payroll taxes because I was worried about it hurting Social Security and Medicare, and now I'm worried about losing the cut in payroll taxes!

        We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

        by Tamar on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 11:52:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll let you know when we file (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          We're lower income. I certainly am, although we file jointly, but we're still pretty low income. What bracket are you talking about? Do you have a link, perchance?

          I'm about as adept talking taxes as I am riding giraffes, just to let you know. I'm more fluent in Latin. Literally.

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          by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:12:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm no great shakes at tax stuff either, even (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mahakali overdrive

            though I'm a numbers person. Here's something I found on this:

            Americans may be breathing a deep sigh of relief that Congress resolved the so-called fiscal cliff crisis for the time being – until they see their next pay stubs. That’s because payroll taxes will increase on most workers after Congress decided not to reverse an expiration of a payroll tax cut – a development that was largely expected. Payroll taxes rose to 6.2% under the deal, from 4.2% last year.

            The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimates that 77% of Americans will see higher taxes because of the elimination of the payroll tax cut, meaning $115 billion less in disposable income.

            So you've been paying 4.2% of your wages but that will go up to 6.2% -- which is what it was until a couple of years ago. Flat percentages like that always hurt people at the lower income end more than people at the upper end.

            We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

            by Tamar on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:22:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yep, looks like what it was before (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy, Tamar

              I guess. It doesn't look too bad to me. We make under 50K per year (don't get me started -- this is with two doctoral degrees and two full-time jobs thanks to the State of California's horrific hiring rates since we're technically both State workers). We also get an EIC for a dependent. Normally, we get a refund. My personal wages are so nominal that they are helpful to pay for the kitty litter and such. However, I've been applying for better jobs and hope to have something a little more reasonable than the slap in the face that I have at present. But teaching is a rough gig.

              Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

              by mahakali overdrive on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 12:29:44 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The only people who ended up making big money (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mahakali overdrive

                who were in my doctoral program were the ones who went to work for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I worked for the federal government and then took a pay cut to work for a non-profit -- a children's advocacy organization. One of the best decisions I ever made. So I never made a whole hell of a lot either but was happy in my work.
                My husband does better monetarily because he has an M.D., not a doctorate! But we could be much better off financially if he had accepted the offer he got from a profit-making mental health facility. Instead, his 2 jobs over the last 30 years have been with clinics. But that's what he loves and we have enough to be comfortable, so we're not griping. (the only time I regretted this was when our very disabled son was alive and the treatment for his needs was enormously expensive. We went into debt even though we both worked and had 2 different health insurance companies "covering" his care).
                One of the things I find galling about your situation and to a lesser extent ours is the way people with much less education get higher paying jobs for moving money around. My niece's first major boyfriend came out of college and got a job in a financial firm and he was making $15,000 more per year than I was with a Ph.D. and a decade of experience. I know a lot of those people lost their jobs when the financial system crashed, but there were plenty left in that system making much more than they deserve.

                We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

                by Tamar on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 01:08:56 PM PST

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        •  It does go back up. However, the cut was supposed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive

          to be temporary and its extension was never seriously proposed by either side.

      •  now see those are things I would welcome reading (0+ / 0-)

        too bad it's more hair on fire then analysis such as yours

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