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View Diary: From the White House: 7 Things You Need to Know About the Deal (300 comments)

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  •  To paraphrase the Dalai Lama, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mindful Nature, Kay Observer2

    be the change you wish to see in your world.

    You cannot clear the crap out by adding to it. You cannot see to pick the mote out of your neighbor's eye without first removing the beam in your own.

    The problem is that the other side is all too happy to not merely criticize the President, but lose all sense of proportion in so doing. When any deviation from the diarist's or commenter's own personal principles is viewed as a "betrayal of the base" or a variant thereof, there's no sense of proportionality, and no chance for meaningful dialogue.

    Take slinkerwink's latest diary, very popular amongst Obama critics. She rends garments over the debt deal and goes so far as to, without evidence, presume to know the President's mind and motivations in making the deal. And she made nary a whisper about her previous diary, in which she decried the potential cuts to Social Security and Medicare, which to the President's credit, did not happen. This is a fundamentally unserious criticism and it does not invite serious response -- though I personally tried very hard to give one.

    Further, as much as you complain about the"deluge of whinging about ponies and unicorns", the converse is true. Any defense of the President is often met with implied or explicit accusations of hero worship, blind loyalty, cult of personality, or other such crap. Perhaps you could demonstrate your good intentions in improving the process that you might tend to your own house with as much vigor as you point fingers at the other side. Because while you're certainly not wrong that the ponies-and-unicorns rebuttals happen and are a significant problem, you're only looking at half the issue.

    We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

    by raptavio on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:55:23 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  I am afraid (0+ / 0-)

      Your response exemplifies the problem.  In effect, if people do not agree with you they are unserious.   This is problematic.   I doubt you'll understand why

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:41:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And yet (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mindful Nature, Kay Observer2

        you have, once again, exemplified the very problem that you described, as you describe it.

        I said, quite clearly in fact, that many diaries, like Armando's, invite serious discussion. And Armando does not, by any stretch, agree with me.

        You chose to ignore that and claimed I said the opposite.

        How can productive discussion be had when you respond to what you imagine, instead of what was actually said?

        We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another. -- Jonathan Swift

        by raptavio on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:13:20 AM PST

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        •  Look (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raptavio

          I'm sorry.  I think we agree that the tenor needs to change.  I'll take up your challenge of trying to rein in the accusations of culthood and hero worship.  (I am afraid your mention of Armando, but no matter)

          The fact is a lot of us (i mean this broadly) are incredibly frustrated but unsure how to deal with it.  

          Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

          by Mindful Nature on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:40:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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