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View Diary: Reid considers delaying filibuster reform vote (148 comments)

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  •  Both my senators are anti-F-reform (7+ / 0-)

    Cardin and Mikulski of Maryland.  And yes, I gave them what-for.
    I still can't fathom WHY Reid would put any effort into negotiating with McConnell.  How many upside-the-heads does Harry need before he figures out he's being played?

    But I guess we should just give up and recognize that we, the little people, are just not meant to understand the really complicated, important affairs of gummint.

    Ciao, y'all.

    (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 12.6 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

    by argomd on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 01:53:27 PM PST

    •  Sounds like he needs to negotiate with your sens (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      Seriously, if he can't get the Dems on board, there's no point in having a vote at all.  I think that's what's going on here.

      •  Yep, but maybe Harry agrees with them... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MPociask

        I'm beginning to wonder, what with his newly-announced strategic delay of the opening of the new Senate and the critical filibuster vote.  He's said he should have supported Merkley and Udall before, regretting his past decisions, but I've learned to hold back on believing such promises.

        Sigh.  And I'm not likely to persuade Cardin or Mikulski.  Still, they know how I feel.

        If it were Steny, I'd make a louder noise, 'cause I have evidence that he actually listens to his "folks" occasionally.

        (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 12.6 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

        by argomd on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 03:39:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  having a vote; promising primaries (0+ / 0-)

        Yes there is a point in having a vote:

        Having a vote would force a few Democrats to openly vote against real filibuster reform, which would enable each of them to be targeted for primary challenges by reform supporters.

        If all the no-voters are 6 or 4 years away from the end of their terms, this intended protective cushion could be turned against them if a primary challenger is identified quickly and uses the next six years to develop name recognition and a campaign organization, while reminding the world of the Senator's no-vote each time Republicans abuse the filibuster.

        If Reid does not schedule such a vote, then he is preventing this type of accountability, and he himself needs to be primaried -- regardless of anything positive he has done or will do.  Hopefully a credible threat of such a primary would help persuade him to schedule a vote on real reform even (or especially) if it is not likely to pass.

    •  Truth? It is all because "we, the little people" (0+ / 0-)

      cannot get our heads and act together long enough to effect real change. We are distracted by trinkets and "infotainment" while neglecting our duty to turn out in every election, vote every race to the bottom of the ticket and do so over enough time to bring about change.

      Why aren't we seeing a much more representative House? Because too many couldn't be bothered to "speak" with a vote in the mid terms—you know, those boring things where state legislators tend to get elected—just before reapportionment. Oh yeah, "I voted for change in 2008!" means a hell of a lot if you let the bastards take over your legislature and governor's office two years later. And that let the TP/GOP nutters into the House for the next two years for the just wonderful Congress that is finally ending.

      I keep hearing people here blasting Obama, Reid and no few talking, even urging others, to "sit out elections." Unless you voted in every damn election, down to county registrar of voters where that is elected, go look in a mirror for the problem.

      I hear whining about our "system" that limits our choices. That is like whining that gravity keeps us from donning a towel and flying off the roof like Superman. Childish. It is the system we've got and the only way to improve it is to make the choices we can, if for nothing but killing political careers of the worst.

      When good people sit out elections shit slithers in or isn't flushed out.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 02:28:16 PM PST

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      •  Hmmm. Long attention span here. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pelagicray

        I strongly suspect I associate myself firmly with your remarks.

        (are there benthic rays, too?)

        (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 12.6 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

        by argomd on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 03:32:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I'd hope most here see voting that way. Too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          argomd

          many, even here, do not seem to get that fact of life that a few big elections rarely bring about long term change. I sense a change since my early days, but then we also had defined "civics" in grade, middle and high school with at least one required college course in "government" back then. Somewhere I have an interesting study indicating a shift from citizen (ownership) to customers (lack of responsibility for the business) with respect to government.

          In that we may have a counter trend to the fabled "ownership society" and Republicans may have a point—too many see the government as something to do for them rather than something they own and have responsibility for maintaining. Not quite what they mean, but maybe what we have.

          Yep, lots of benthic rays. Most that people are familiar with are benthic. The truly pelagic ones are the minority with perhaps Dasyatis violacea being the most similar to the benthic rays in form. The great mantas, Manta birostris are also pelagic.

          The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

          by pelagicray on Wed Jan 02, 2013 at 05:34:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  New understanding. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pelagicray

            Thanks for taking the time to expound.  We're probably coeval, in that I think I can remember civics classes, at least in high school.  It was Alabama, so most of my education came from books at home, not school.

            The subtle transfer from owner- to customer- based thinking -- and its unexpected side-effects -- sounds right.  We've let one ideology define the terms of the debate, and perhaps it's time we recognize how successful they might have been.  And take that part of the debate back into more reality-based territory.

            I don't mean pragmatism, by which so many deem a shrug the best bipartisan act.  No, it's returning to the "...of the people, by the people..." with reduced emphasis on the consumerist "...for the people," if I hear you rightly.

            I'm closing in on my final years, but being part of a much longer-term effort doesn't deter me.  You'll have seen much of the battle being waged here at DK over whether we were scammed or saved in the recent DC deal.  How do we all find a constructive way through that?  How do we reverse this momentum into creation rather than destruction?

            Thanks for those links.  Wish I could have gone to the Monterey Bay Aquarium, but it postdated my time in CA. I often think 'abyssal' for 'benthic' when I should know better.  Lo siento.

            (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 12.6 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

            by argomd on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 03:01:39 PM PST

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            •  We probably are. Smell of tear gas during (0+ / 0-)

              university integration? Yep, I played with expired WW II coupons and remember only wooden toys from the early years—metal for the war.

              Long ago I realized I had watched the Great Depression/WW II era adults fail to pass on the gut level lessons learned from that pain. Reluctance to talk, frankly and with real emotion as well, took a toll. By the 1970s we had a generation that had little clue as to why the New Deal was important. The same factions that fought FDR and the New Deal managed to convince enough of that clueless bunch for "St. Ronnie's" start at unraveling the system and ideals.

              I also think my family has had the advantage in some ways of late childbearing for generations. I realized when my kids were in grade school that most of their friends grandparents were just a bit older than I or equal in age. Meanwhile their grandmother had stories of the Great Depression, wartime shortages and got explanations why she saved used soap to make liquid soap and other little thrifty aids. I'd gotten first hand accounts of childhood in the 1880s and 1890s. We, and I'm happy to say my kids for the most part, lived and spent well below our "income level" being very "old fashioned" about debt.

              One needs not erase history. One needs only fail to teach one generation of children. Fail with two, and the destruction widens.
              C. J. Cherryh in Hammerfall applies.

              I am very happy to remember our oldest grandchild being very determined to cast the first vote this last election. They may not be as consistent there as I, but show signs of better than average. I have votied in every election with a candidate (may have missed some obscure special bond elections) local to national since 1960 except when I was  far too pelagic to make absentee application and ballot deadlines. I once got a local election ballot half a world away two months after the polls closed. Those deadlines didn't help those getting mail once a month and sometimes chasing about the world for weeks more. I sometimes got letters from my wife written months previously a week after I got home.

              The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

              by pelagicray on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:11:50 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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