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View Diary: Meanwhile, in the Arctic (114 comments)

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  •  Let's take a vote. (2+ / 0-)
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    citisven, blueoasis

    As regards this question:

    Or do you think we can all still drive cars and have an economy based on perpetual growth once "production is under democratic control?"
    Here's the question in our hypothetical referendum.  "Would you willingly choose to live in the current expanding fossil fuel economy knowing that the main consequence of your choice would be that all of the human race would be doomed to global warming hell?"  We could activate all of the world's polling booths for a convenient date, and hold a campaign period in which the issue of global warming were explained according to the most up-to-date science.  There would no doubt have to be a significant campaign of mass education in which scientific literacy would be granted to people who would otherwise not be able to understand Petit et al., or Raupach et al.

    What portion of the public do you think would accept global warming hell, and vote the wrong way?

    Somehow I gather that the propaganda version of "socialism" has replaced the notion of real public control with visions of Senator Joe McCarthy reading from the Sunday sports page some time in 1950 and telling the cameras he has a list of 100 card-carrying Communists in his hands.  My point is this: the idea of such a vote is of course a fantasy, and my mentioning it is a parlor game.  But it is only a fantasy because, and only because, we don't really have any control over the fossil fuel economy.  

    If we want that control, living like Prius-driving monks while leaving capitalist society as it is is not going to grant us that control.  Phasing out capitalism and bringing in some sort of collective human control over the destiny of the human race is, then, a prerequisite to a better world.  The capitalists are not going to grant us the reality we want at a chance meeting of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.  They have too much staked upon the mechanisms whereby they acquired their power over us.

    "On the sidewalk the people are hustling and bustling/ They ain't got no time so they think on the thing/ That will fill in the space in between birth and death" -- Donovan Leitch

    by Cassiodorus on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:34:40 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  a significant campaign of mass education... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis

      Hey, I'll sign on to that! : )

      If I hear you correctly, you're saying that all the issues are interconnected. If we had a more democratic populace, we'd be more more educated, responsible, and ecologically attuned. If our system weren't so profit-driven and the banksters and speculators weren't holding the rest of us hostage, we could actually start recovering from the damage we've inflicted on ourselves and the planet.

      I totally agree, but I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg proposition. We won't be able to just magically do away with vulture capitalism, so that then everyone can wake up and become educated and caring citizens. If we want to even have the slightest chance to ever see the system change in that way, as many of us as possible have to wake up and become educated and caring citizens against all odds, so that we have enough people to make such a fundamental change to our system. Otherwise you're just talking "anti-capitalistic" rule by a minority, which has been tried before and it didn't work.

      •  To what extent have you tried? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citisven, blueoasis
        We won't be able to just magically do away with vulture capitalism
        Occupy had a chance to make this happen.

        "On the sidewalk the people are hustling and bustling/ They ain't got no time so they think on the thing/ That will fill in the space in between birth and death" -- Donovan Leitch

        by Cassiodorus on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 10:58:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've tried all my life in many different ways (1+ / 0-)
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          blueoasis

          and Occupy was great, but there's no magic formula that just makes it happen, I've found that it takes continued hard work on all levels.

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