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View Diary: Will the Democratic Party fight for the Democratic legacy? (314 comments)

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  •  the following changes to Social Security (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    winsock, Hawkjt, bluegrass50, NanaoKnows

    and Medicare would be just fine with me, because they will strengthen both programs and sustain them both well into the next century:

    Social Security:
    a) Raising or eliminating the cap on the income that Social Security is taken out from (currently a little more than $106,000, if memory serves correctly)...
    b) Means testing Social Security even more, by reducing Social Security benefits for individuals with incomes of more than $1 million a year.


    a) Allow Medicare to negotiate with drug companies to get group costs;
    b) Means test Medicare even more, by reducing benefits for individuals for individuals with incomes of more than $1 million.

    Republicans are insisting on what they call "entitlement reform" as part of any debt ceiling/budget negotations.

    Okay...if they insist...lets do the above, which will reform both programs, reduce longterm Medicare costs and strengthen both programs well into the next century, without hurting those people who need those programs the most to survive.

    •  Except (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wdrath, NanaoKnows

      If you means test medicare enough you just eliminate participants/contributors and weaken the program.  Maybe it would work ... not sure about this.  But you're absolutely right -- there are good ways to approach "reform" without cutting benefits.  It's not even reform, really, it's just some decent tweaking.

      Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.

      by winsock on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:33:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Look out.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wdrath, winsock

      you are breaking the ''progressive rules'' by suggesting pragmatic solutions.

      Means testing is supposed to be off limits, yet taxing those same people up to 90% is fine,and somehow different. I understand the fear that it could blur the line between Medicare and Medicare or SS and welfare,but as long as any of us have a pulse,that will never happen.
      Hell,folks on here go crazy when the President merely suggests strengthening medicare by efficiencies...

      I find it interesting how seniors voted strongly for Romney,who would have really gutted these programs,but now if Obama suggests tiny adjustments around the edges and they go ballistic.

      The reality is the senior citizens have paid in about 1/3rd of what will recieve in benefits from medicare. Something does have to give.

      •  Oh, bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

        Lots of the same people irritated with Obama over his negotiating style are the same ones that talk all the time about lifting the cap and negotiating drug prices. Those are “pragmatic” solutions, too.

        And there aren't a lot of “efficiencies” left in Medicare. The reason Medicare fund is inadequate is that health care costs are out of control. It does not follow that what “has to give” is the quality of care; that is only one option.

        And yes, means testing is different from progressive taxation. Means testing particular programs (in the absolute sense, i.e. no SS for you, you made too much) would make those programs weak, as they begin to be seen as welfare moocher programs rather than things that everyone pays into and benefits from. It is (brace yourself) a pragmatic concern, not an ideological one. There's nothing morally wrong with means testing SS and Medicare, it's politically dangerous.

        Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
        Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
        Code Monkey like you!

        Formerly known as Jyrinx.

        by Code Monkey on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:19:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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