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View Diary: The Unemployed were not saved!!! (48 comments)

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  •  For the two million who still (30+ / 0-)

    receive benefits it mattered.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:24:31 AM PST

    •  In the long term (15+ / 0-)

      the destruction of decent employment prospects and any sort of Keynesian economics will hurt a lot more.

      Republicans...think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. Harry S. Truman

      by fenway49 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:27:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  For you almost certainly (18+ / 0-)

        For those unemployed who have benefitted from the extension, it's a big deal.

        Y'know, I can live with an argument that the overall losses in the bill outweighed the benefits...I was neutral to opposed to the bill.  But to argue that the extension of unemployment benefits isn't that important...that just seems more than a bit cruel, more than a bit crass.

        The unemployed are not pawns in your war...they are people...and many were helped by this bill.  That is a good thing, without doubt....even if you don't think it is enough to justify the entire bill.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And you know I'm not unemployed myself (5+ / 0-)

          because? I resent the suggestion that I think anyone is a "pawn in my war" and the assumption that I'm employed and doing just great. Yes, an extension of benefits is, in and of itself, good. But people's benefits end all the time if their state's official unemployment rate drops below a certain point. Many people affected by the extension will be caught in this trap. On balance, I do not think it is enough to justify the bill.

          Pushing for actual economic growth will, by promoting employment, help many of the unemployed in the short- and long-term, and improve the fiscal situation. As it is we keep people out of work and kick the can down the road a bit, reducing the size of the federal budget every single time. Would you be OK with another trillion in cuts in exchange for getting another temporary UI extension?

          Republicans...think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. Harry S. Truman

          by fenway49 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:04:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sorry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fenway49

            Just realized I responded to you rather than the diarist...this comment makes no sense in light of you comment.

            "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

            by Empty Vessel on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:09:52 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, a little (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Empty Vessel, gooderservice

              in that I think the diarist has a point. You, and the person I was responding to, have a point too. Expiration of UI would be a problem for many people individually and for demand overall. That's what makes this hostage-taking so damn frustrating. But we can't let it go on forever and ever expect to move this country forward.

              Republicans...think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. Harry S. Truman

              by fenway49 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:19:27 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  All I can say, is this diary seems a little (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fenway49, hillbrook green, TomP

                To eager to claim that no benefit occurred.  I can accept that this is insufficient, that too many are getting nothing...but there seems no recognition in the diary that many have been helped...that many have been saved...just not nearly enough.

                "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

                by Empty Vessel on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:23:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think the diarist (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Jarrayy, blueoasis

                  might be reacting, in frustration, to the oft-seen assertion on DK that the deal is unassailable because of the UI extension, and that anyone who doesn't like the deal is callous toward those receiving UI. I get that frustration.

                  Republicans...think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. Harry S. Truman

                  by fenway49 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:30:04 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You know, that comment is just wrong. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    sewaneepat, TheLizardKing, edrie

                    Nobody is saying that the deal is perfect.

                    IT'S A DEAL!

                    IT GOT SOMETHING DONE!

                    That is the way that life works. You put your shoulder to the grindstone and you move it up the hill a few inches.

                    The damn thing is NOT going to roll uphill on its own.

                    And the more people that are sitting around on the hill, obstructing everybody else with their visions of purity and light, the longer it is going to take.

                    If people want to tell someone about the plight of the poor and the homeless, they should start talking to all those selfish asshole Republicans - they are the ones who don't care.

                    Everybody here knows that things are not perfect and never will be perfect. We're just trying to do all we can to get as close to perfection as possible. It's not easy, especially when people are standing around deriding every positive thing that happens.

                    There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

                    by hillbrook green on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:42:09 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

                      I don't follow. We were discussing the impression that the diarist thinks nothing good was accomplished, and I said that the diarist might just be tired of hearing that anyone who has a beef with the deal wants people on UI to suffer. I never said the deal was perfect or that it was all bad.

                      But your comment assumes, without establishing, that this deal is a "positive thing." I think there are many positive aspects of the deal, and some negative. Not negative in the sense of "I didn't get every single thing I wanted." Negative in the sense of dramatically reducing the likelihood the government will have, going forward, sufficient revenues to do anything progressive.

                      Republicans...think the American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire the Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it. Harry S. Truman

                      by fenway49 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 05:46:49 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

        •  what about the MAJORITY of the unemployed? (4+ / 0-)

          y'know, the pawns already knocked off the board? They exist, whether you or the government wants to look at the corpses of what was once were people who counted. Give it 6 months, and a good number of your chosen people WONT BE GETTING A CHECK EITHER. What is the fucking plan you have for them in 6 months? When would be a good time to stand up and say no more BS, given that it will takes weeks if not months for a jobs program to be implemented? Thought so.....

          •  Well, maybe if people weren't so busy (5+ / 0-)

            calling every positive step a big pile of shit, we could continue the momentum of the last election (gains in both House and Senate) and actually get a working "majority" in both House and Senate (takes 60 there).

            Do you seriously believe that if the Dems controlled both House and Senate that there would not have been a more concerted effort at stimulating the economy and taking better care of the poor and homeless??

            Really??

            Because you're talking to a lot of Democrats on this site.

            No one here thinks the Democratic Party is perfect, but we are all trying to work towards making it better all the time.

            If you don't want the Democratic Party to be better, please get out of the way. You're obstructing the forward movement. It may be too slow for you, but at least we're moving instead of sitting in the middle of the road and crying because things aren't perfect.

            There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

            by hillbrook green on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:33:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The privatizing conservadems that run the Party (5+ / 0-)

              are doing what exactly to make the Democratic party better?

              Rahm, Bowels, Clinton, and, good man that he is, Obama are the reason there is no party in America that puts the needs of most Americans above the bloated desires and greed of monied interests.

              If you think the long road from FDR to Clinton was a good trip for the Democratic Party than you had a way different view from the bus than I did.

              •  They "run" the party (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TheLizardKing, edrie

                because people let them "run" the party.

                And personally, I disagree with your assertion. The people you are referring to didn't want Obama as President. They wanted Hillary Clinton, Rahm doesn't work in the White House any more. He works in that cesspool of politics called Chicago.

                Let's see: Medicare, Medicaid, Civil Rights legislation, the REPEAL of DADT, public and forceful Presidential support for Gay Marriage... just to name a few.

                Yeah, you're right. It's been all downhill from FDR.

                Steady downhill. Nothing to see here. Move along.

                Absolutely nothing has gotten better since FDR?

                I was born 4 years after FDR died. I remember seeing "Whites Only!" signs on the water fountains.

                Things are not perfect. Nobody is saying they are.

                And, by the way, the Democratic Party of Woodrow Wilson was staunchly racist to the point of President WW taking pride in telling racist jokes at White House functions.

                So yeah, I think, overall, that the arc of the Democratic Party is a HELL of a lot better than the arc of the party founded by Abe Lincoln....

                There are only two types of Republicans: 1) racists; and 2) people who are willing to be associated with racists.

                by hillbrook green on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 01:01:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Medicare, Medicaid, Civil Rights Legislation are (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Jarrayy

                  all under assault. The repeal of DADT was, like Civil Rights, earned by years of effort by the group discriminated against. Although I believe both presidents supported the movements whole heartedly and got in front of the parades when they thought they could do the most good.

                  When President Obama finally gave voice to his support for Gay Rights look at how it changed the battle. So why can't he loudly support strengthening SS for the people who receive the benefits instead of the Pete Petersons' who want to play with the money on Wall St? Why include even more tax incentives for Wall St banks to offshore money and jobs in this latest bargain?

                  Yes, great social advances have been made for Americans thanks to the citizens affected and the Democratic Party which has again and again in the last 80 years championed social justice. But no major redesign or adjustment to America's economy since the 1960s has put working and middle class needs before the desire and greed of the monied elite. And I worry that ACA will be used as a vehicle to privatize Medicare and Medicaid rather moving us to a single payer system that will lower healthcare costs. The Democratic party leadership has abandoned the economic interests of the 98%.  FDR said that he didn't know who he was going to appoint to his cabinet, but he did know that not one of them would know how to get to Wall St. Clinton and Obama don't even require that the Goldman Sachs bandits they hire give up their day jobs. (I exaggerate to clarify) But they come from and go back to the St. don't they?

                  And I agree that the arc of the Ds is much better than the arc of the Rs but both parties ended up on Wall St, and Wall  St and the money crowd are not in the 'How are the citizens doing business'.

        •  So as long as we can help 20% of the unemployed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TracieLynn

          we can never push for a better economics for the majority of Americans?

          Mind you, I admit that if I were unemployed and barely covering my bills I sure as hell would want the extension. I have needed benefits and couldn't find work a time or two, and even without a family to support the prospect of everything you have worked for, housing, transportation, education, savings going down the tubes because you need a few months of unemployment is brutal. So thats why the Democrats should be negotiating for an automatic extension of benefits if unemployment is above 5%. If the repugs can't grab the unemployed they can't hold them hostage.

          Since the capture of the Democratic Party leadership by Wall St Dems, there has been no push for any major economic policy that puts average Americans before the monied interests. A bandaid here, a bandaid there, but every major redesign of the economy has favored finance over working citizens for more than 30 years.

          And the lurking fear many of us have that Obama will hand over SS and even Medicare to Wall St is ever present. Has been present since the Clinton administration. FDRs great legacy had to be saved by a blow job in 90s. Mr.Obama may be a conservadem but he is not a sexual libertine. We have to count on ourselves, not Monica, to save the program from these Wall St Dems.

    •  it still takes balls (0+ / 0-)

      to tell a recently unemployed person, who never got benefits, and who opposed the deal, that he doesn't care about the unemployed.

      In politics, there is the class war. Everything else is naming post offices.

      by happymisanthropy on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 11:52:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do not understand why you replied (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheLizardKing

        to my comment with this.  Myabe you meant to reply to someone else.  I said nothing to anyone about not caring about the unemployed.  

        Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

        by TomP on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 12:53:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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