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  •  Some of the worst psychopaths in America (26+ / 0-)

    are involved in college football programs.

    All I can hope is that none of these savages ever earns a penny from playing professional football.  I hope every opportunity they ever assumed they'd be afforded, merely by dint of their ability to kick a bag of wind, will be snatched away by cold, hard reality.

    What kind of parents are raising these feral thugs?  What kind of society?

    •  Here's why they won't: (23+ / 0-)

      Sexual assault is not a problem for pro sports team owners.

      But saying dumb things on social media or while a camera is rolling; now THAT is a problem.

      It's Ohio.

      Football players are no more subject to justice than medieval royalty was.

    •  really? (3+ / 0-)

      some of the worst?

      manson
      bundy
      loughner
      etc

      none involved in college football programs.

      •  oh, knock it off, would you? (8+ / 0-)

        We get it.  Football, the coach of the team, the town that employs the coach, the ADA whose son is on the football team--they are not to be blamed.

        •  i didn't say that now did I (4+ / 0-)

          But you saying that some of the worst criminals in US history are from college football programs is statistically and factually wrong.

          coaches and players are to blame, attitudes are to blame etc. but blaming the sport is no different than blaming marilyn manson for columbine.

          •  sorry not criminals (0+ / 0-)

            psychopaths, you said worst psychopaths.

            •  I didn't say any of this, not worst criminals, not (7+ / 0-)

              worst psychopaths.

              The coach of the team defended the rapists.
              The town defended the coach.
              The town's assistant district attorney, whose son is on the team, defended the team.
              The sheriff supervised a compromised investigation, and suppressed evidence.

              You want to launch a full-throated defense of football culture in small towns, by all means.

              •  no, i'm launching a full throated defense of sport (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW

                in general.

                I won't defend the team or the coaches or the actions of anyone involved in this case.

                I'm defending the sport, the game played on the field, and the fact that playing sports, in my opinion, is goof for children and teens in multitudes of ways.

                •  And I agree with you... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Trobone, madhaus, JayRaye, stormicats

                  and the fact that playing sports, in my opinion, is goof for children and teens in multitudes of ways.

                  I'll assume you mean "Good" ;)

                  Sport can be good for a lot of things, and a lot of people; that's not a reason, though, to look at the places where it causes problems, and see if we can fix them; and fixing them includes involving sport in the discussion. Making it off-limits, saying "it doesn't cause problems", etc. is not going to help fix the problems at all.

                  By trying to remove sport from the picture of "How did this happen and how do we stop it happening again", you're not doing the victims, or the sport, a good deed.

                  •  yes, i meant food (0+ / 0-)

                    and the reason I say it doesn't cause problems is because other than baseless accusations there is no evidence that it does cause problems.

                    lets remove football.

                    what we have is a group who made the horrible criminal choice to take advantage of another person, and if the accusations turn out to be true, raped her and dropped her off. their school mentor and parents defended their charectar, even though they will most likely be found guilty.

                    we could easily make the mentor the band teacher, the science club coach, or the theater director. we could easily make the boys into girls and call them cheerleaders. we could make it a group of college guys or girls and say they were in a greek house and the mentor was an alumni or house president.

                    so what caused this to happen. bad decisions. yes. bad parenting, maybe. and as for the parents and mentor. it's the instinct of parents to defend children, it's the instinct of mentors to defend their group as well. can they be wrong, absofuckinglutely. and it's happening in this scenario.

                    •  When people start (6+ / 0-)

                      to say that removing football is a cure (and though you seem to have claimed this many times in your comments here, I have yet to see anyone else saying it), you might have a point.

                      What people are saying is that the privileged status many school athletes, especially football players, have causes a lot of trouble, because the players begin to think themselves above everyone else.

                      Here's a suggestion:  Treat football like what it is - a game.  A fairly meaningless game, in the big picture.

                      Members of the band don't get that kind of treatment.  members of the ... Chess Club don't get that kind of treatment.  Why should anyone?

                      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

                      by trumpeter on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 02:35:07 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  OK. Let's try this again: (6+ / 0-)

                      lets remove football.

                      That's what you want to do; you want to pretend that every group is identical in the behaviors it shapes, etc -- that marching bands are identical to football teams, etc.

                      (As it happens, when the marching band is made central to the school's identity, you do get something similar -- I'd have to look up which Florida marching band it was that had hazing deaths. OTOH, the culture there was very similar to that of a central-to-identity football program.)

                      And, indeed, there's a reason people have been leading crusades against Greek houses on campus for a long time.

                      But football gets put in that central position much more often, and because of the way it deals with its members (the whole Us vs. Them, we are special, we must work together as a team to win) makes it, and this has been my point, more prone to certain sorts of abuses than other groups.

                      That is all anyone is saying; that football, because it is different, produces a different culture around it; and we need to consider how that culture interacts with the rest of the culture to produce these catastrophic events.

                      Trying to take football out of the picture is doing a disservice to the victims, and to the players as well.

                      •  too right (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        LSophia, JayRaye

                        the way it deals with its members (the whole Us vs. Them, we are special, we must work together as a team to win) makes it, and this has been my point, more prone to certain sorts of abuses than other groups.

                        Good analysis - I think this is why sexual assault is rampant in the armed services too...

                        "The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -Muriel Rukeyser

                        by tubacat on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:54:39 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

      •  Are those the "worst" or the most publicized? (4+ / 0-)

        Loughner has been repeatedly categorized as mentally ill rather than psychopathic, fyi. Yeah, maybe football players aren't the "worst," but these dudes are getting off scot-free. Everyone you've named there? They've been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Do you see a difference there?

        •  because no football athletes never get punished (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sparhawk

          ha.....

          do you really want me to start listing off athletes who were punished for their crimes as well?

          and yes, they are some of the worst. no football player ever went on to become a mass murderer of humans that I know of.

          •  Tip of the iceberg... the worst tip to be sure (0+ / 0-)

            but how much of the rest of the berg is as bad? Like anything the rest of it is mostly less horrible. And for most of them lies and coverups take care of these lesser more numerous incidents which are relatively more petty... illegal though they are nonetheless.

            So what differentiates the ones we hear about vs. the ones that nobody is called into account for? Maybe only bad luck for the perp(s) and/or a particularly flagrant act or set of acts plus maybe an unwise choice of victim leads to something more public and with a higher profile in the news with charges, guilty verdict and appropriate punishment. And for the ones that we never hear about it also helps if it happens in a corrupt town where there are plenty of people of influence who have reasons to help make problems go away... but there is a point with some crimes where even a place more corrupt than usual cannot erase reality like they are accustomed to.

            Pogo & Murphy's Law, every time. Also "Trust but verify" - St. Ronnie (hah...)

            by IreGyre on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 03:05:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  White Man. White Man. White Man. White Man. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bluedust

        Yeah, no pattern there.

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