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View Diary: Lindsey Graham might get his way, but he doesn't have the leverage that he thinks he does (148 comments)

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  •  Very true (22+ / 0-)

    We'll see what happens.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:33:03 PM PST

    •  Fix the Debit has lots of money. (6+ / 0-)

      I have listened over this past week from Ed Rendell, Joe Sestak and others, on how the Democrats will need to share in the pain. They both have talked up the chained CPI and raising the age requirement for Social Security and Medicare.

      I agree that democrats will have to make up their minds but money talks a BS walks. And Pete Peterson and the big CEO's have the money and can buy people just like they have with Rendell, he is the Co-Chairman of Fix the Debit.

      •  That's so sad... (4+ / 0-)

        What has happened to Democrats?  The majority of Americans have been shouldering the pain for coming on 40 years.  Why on earth are Democrats on Lindsay Graham's bandwagon?  So incredibly sad.

        The liberty of democracy is not safe if people tolerate growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself.---FDR

        by masslib on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:38:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I hope and pray (5+ / 0-)

        That the Democrats joining the Senate can stop these clowns.

        The liberty of democracy is not safe if people tolerate growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself.---FDR

        by masslib on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:49:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  The fiscal bluff is exactly that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fixxit, sfbob, Timothy J

        Who loses if we default?  The wealthy, that's who--people who own stocks and bonds. That  is who suffered last time, when the Dow fell by 1800 when hwe came close to default.  McConnell's Chinese in-laws won't allow a default this time any more than they did last time.  Is is all bluster and will end the same way as the fiscal cliff--with a majority of Dems voting to extend the debt limit and the GOP more fractured and despairing than it is today.  That's why it is the fiscal bluff.

        The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

        by Mimikatz on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:34:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes we will (23+ / 0-)

      I for one don't believe the president would let the nation default to make a political point against the Republicans, and I don't think they believe that either.  It's not who he is.  So unless he starts minting trillion-dollar platinum coins against the eventuality, I think his debt ceiling bravado is just one more line he's drawn in the sand which will vanish with the next incoming wave.  Hard to see how else he stands firm on the debt ceiling, with Republican crayzees who have already proven willing to go into default.  Where are all those CEO's Obama courted?  I don't see them bringing their Republican employees on the Hill to heel.

      Some Democrats are itching to bring chained-CPI or raising the Medicare age back onto the table.  Hell, Ed Rendell was advocating giving up both of them on MSNBC just today.  I'd be a lot more optimistic if I heard Democrats fighting for infrastructure jobs programs in a determined way, rather than just bringing them up as a bargaining chip to instantly cast away.  For every dollar of restored defense spending, let's demand a dollar of green infrastructure spending.  But I won't hold my breath waiting for the party to pick up that flag to march under.

      Republicans do have as much leverage as Democrats give them, Jed's right about that.  That's exactly what worries me.

      Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

      by Dallasdoc on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:55:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No negotiations on the debt ceiling (19+ / 0-)

        is the winning strategy, if the President is willing to stick with it.

        Just ignore this manufactured "crisis" completely, Presidential hands in Presidential ears, mouthing lalalalala.

        If he does that, he forces the 1% to rein in their teabagger dupes. What choice do they have? A default on the American debt hurts Wall street and the rest of the 1% most of all.

        When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

        by PhilJD on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:01:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  if there were to be a default (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, TomP, bwren, Matt Z, fixxit

        Obama would have nothing to do with it and Jed is right, after the right wingers folded on the supposed fiscal cliff, there is no way with less than two years before midterms and what is likely to be 70% voter opposition to changes to earned benefits, it would be political suicide to insist on them and push the US into default.

        the wingers can yell and scream all they want. they are talking to themselves. I don't see where they think they have leverage.

        relative to debt limit, threatening default violates the 14th Amendment of the Constitution which was written during Reconstruction to prevent just the kind of hostage taking that the right is suggesting but of course you won't read/hear that from MSM.

        There again, Obama does not need to take any action. The wingers are capable of violating the Constitution all by themselves. I think the leverage is on the left.

        mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

        by wewantthetruth on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:06:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Stop hoping for 2014. They don't lose their power (0+ / 0-)

          for the next two years, and the government and the country has to survive those two years before 2014 makes any difference at all.

          As it is, they are boasting about how unless they are paid off,they will destroy both the US economy and credit and the world economy, and then close down the gummint with the non-resolution of the Continuing Resolution which they have bound us to by refusing to produce any budget for the last several years. No continuing resol, and the gummint shuts down. We don't know what they think will happen if and after they do that, because they don't care what will happen after they do that, save that the gummint will not be operating at all. What a wonderful time for CHina to invade.

          •  all due respect, (0+ / 0-)

            stop trying to suppress free thinking.

            you have your opinions and I have mine. you were a thoughtful discussion, try not starting it with "stop".

            have a wonderful day.

            mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

            by wewantthetruth on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:29:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  They better not. That's all I have to say about (0+ / 0-)

        that.  

      •  Jeff indeed lays it out starkly, succinctly (and (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RainyDay

        somewhat surprisingly, given Jed's general inclination to view the performance of Obama and the Congressional Dems through the prism of a glass half full):

        I'm not saying Democrats won't agree to Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid cuts.
        ...
        But if there are cuts, it won't be because Republicans gave Democrats no other choice: It will be because Democrats decided they wanted to make them.
        And with that simple statement of indisputable truth, Jed has foreshadowed the Great Debate that will be thrust upon the GOS on the heels of unnecessary cuts acceded to by the Dems (if indeed that's what comes to pass).

        That debate will be about the future mission of this site. I don't presume to speak for you, Dallasdoc, but I'm quite sure I'm not speaking solely for myself either. In my (our?) view, kossacks and our esteemed satanly leader will be forced to reevaluate how best we can advance the cause of protecting what remains of the New Deal and promote real reform in the governance of the nation.

        I hope the Dems, ultimately, don't capitulate. I hope the Great Debate at the GOS will not have to happen. (I hope I'll someday sprout wings and never again have to waste hours sitting in line, waiting to board the ferry from West Seattle to Vashon).

        Wear it proud. Wear it loud. Outlaw concealed carry. That gun hidden under your coat won't deter shit.

        by WisePiper on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 07:20:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I suppose what you say makes sense if you HATE O (0+ / 0-)

        already.

        One of the R problems they have not thought out is that the evil sequester will all by itself take care of the deficit problem for some time, in the ugliest possible way with the largest amount coming at this point out of defense, and zilch out of the big three. If deficit were their problem, this is automatic and will take that issue away sometime in March.

        And the problem of the debt ceiling is that the debt in question was incurred by Rs, including the off books 300B or so, not including inflation on it, and the tailout of effects in the dead and disabled of their unpaid for wars. And the proper analog, is that they have appropriated and spent all that money already, and what the debt ceiling does is not prevent that, but instead simply bar the gummint from paying the bills for debt incurred before O even became President. Which means all The Wall street gummint debt dealers/contributors to the Rs and those southern pork barrel military contractors contributors to Rs don't get paid either, under circumstances where they can't sue the gummint for payment either.

    •  One Party. Two Faces. (0+ / 0-)
      Operation Northwoods: The 9/11 You Never Knew

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