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  •  that speech gets overplayed though (1+ / 0-)
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    Yes FDR was a very very populist president. Perhaps the most so of the 20th century. He also cut deals with the KKK, assisted in discrimination and 'caved' on SS by excluding farm workers from SS

    The point I am trying to make is he was a human being and he did good and he did bad. And if you want to deny the parallels go ahead but it doesn't help your crediblity.

    Further let me remind you FDR didn't live in the age we do in regards to transporation.There was no such thing as a 'global market' and while you're welcome to argue whether we're better off or not without it we can't ignore it.

    •  FDR also got 29% of black (3+ / 0-)
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      MPociask, slinkerwink, Eddie L

      votes in 1932, and between 60-75% in his 3 subsequent elections. Which carried over to Truman with about 70%.

      Yes he did good and he did bad. My point is that he FOUGHT for us. You cannot say Obama fights for us more than he hopes to be a Great Reconciler.

      I understand, he cut his political teeth in the 1990s when polls showed people wanted cooperation as a top demand. But he's stuck in the mid-90s, and that's where all his advisers live. This was before it was plain that the Big Banks are criminal enterprises and an active enemy the nation and people; we had no lunatic wars going on; upward mobility was the trend rather than today's, where poverty grows by leaps and bounds. Grows, year after year, and almost nothing said about it. The Wall Streeters debt issues: Priority Number One. The People's Job Issues: minor things, certainly no CCC or WPA or anything near it. (One million new recipients of Food Stamps in Nov/Dec 2012, for instance.)

      It sure is a different time. And FDR and Obama are very different people, and have very different political aims.

      btw, I'll direct you to the history of a thriving Global Market since the 16th Century, and one which, before the crash of '29 was thriving. Even without computers and super-tankers.

      The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

      by Jim P on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:04:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  fought for whom? (0+ / 0-)

        The farmer workers he ignored?
        The black soliders he ignored?
        The women he ignored?

        As I said you're looking at this though the rosey colored prism of revionist history where in FDR was this great democratic champion of the people. And there's truth there, the man also did things that weren't so great and weren't necessarily for the people.

        And the global market while it sure existed it didn't exist in the way and extent that it did since about the 70s.

        •  Who??! Apparently the people (1+ / 0-)
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          who voted for him in a range of significant-to-massive majorities in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th terms. So, most of America would be who.

          Your mistake is you think it's a matter of "Yeah FDR! Boo Obama!" and it doesn't go past that.

          If the President comes out tomorrow with "You know what? This is not the time to worry about the debt; we've protected Wall Street plenty. Now's time for Jobs. Good paying American jobs in America. Lots of them. We're not talking about deficits any more, even if you folks in media want to. We're talking about Jobs and we need them and we need them now, and here's the plan to get them..."

          You'll see his critics leaping for joy. Because Americans need jobs. It's the answer to most all the economic problems. It's how all those repulsive progressive goals of taking care of people and getting justice get achieved.

          Not leaping because 'The President Is  Awesome,' but because this is an actual attempt to work politics in our interest. And if you don't know, Conventional Beltway Politics is never in our interest.

          But he won't make Jobs a priority. Congress wouldn't pass it, sure, but they'd have to negotiate toward it. At least give reason why they don't want jobs to the Public. And if they don't pass it the Democratic Congress in 2014 will. As close to guaranteed as you can have in life.

          No. Its not about like and dislike. It's about objective actions and objective outcomes.

          It's about commitment to stated, and pursued, goals.

          "I welcome their hatred" is cited not because people think it is cool (it is) but the man ran against Wall Street. Ran against Republicans. It wasn't something he said once. Keeping them from what they wanted was something he worked on day after day for years. He didn't give in by increments.

          The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

          by Jim P on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 07:20:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  you are utterly moving the goal posts (0+ / 0-)

            here away from my point.

            If you can not contest that point then please just say so

            •  I completely contested your point (0+ / 0-)

              and in full and directly.

              You asserted that ordinary people's love of FDR is why we use that one quote which is unrepresentative of his practice.
              Rebutted in my last paragraph above.

              ... that progressives are looking through rose colored glasses at FDR
              Rebutted in previous comment, as it was policy and rhetoric we are focused on

              ...he didn't fight fiercely for people, Implying that he didn't advance peoples situation when the voter turnout in 3 elections, including blacks and women, confirms they felt he did.

              If you can't address the rebuttals to your own plainly stated points, ... claiming I'm moving goal posts might make it so you don't have to formally cede the points, but it doesn't change what you wrote and what I wrote in response. Anyone can read the thread.

              The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

              by Jim P on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:14:48 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  we're going to disagree then (0+ / 0-)

                because contesting the point had nothing to do with much of your rebuttal and in point of fact the policies of FDR especailly the ones that were not progressive is exactly what I was talking about that you are now ignoring

                You're right anyone can read the thread and before this devolves I choose to leave it here.

                •  FDR progressive moves: Many and (1+ / 0-)
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                  BO progressive policies: Few and intermittent.

                  FDR rhetoric and action against our enemies in finance, and for people needing work: Strong and Unrelenting

                  BO rhetoric and action against our enemies in finance, and for people needing work: Light and Sporadic

                  I don't see how that's arguable.

                  The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

                  by Jim P on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:49:11 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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