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View Diary: Are any bills being contemplated that address the education/mental illness/ gun linkages? (111 comments)

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  •  Sounds like you might have a good example (0+ / 0-)

    Perhaps one problem is that people don't hear about the places where the system is working.  

    We tend to hear about the extremely outrageous, sensational cases that are headline tragedies.  Then we try to build a case for reform based on those experiences.  

    That isn't the whole story.

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:35:25 PM PST

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    •  Right... there are thousands of victories.. (5+ / 0-)

      every day based on really good, non-threatening, non-invasive systems of diagnosis and intervention, along with courageous adults working to head off these crisis in young people. It works. We never hear about any of it because of privacy concerns, and because you cannot prove you actually intervened in time.

      I would be willing to bet that literally thousands of violent crimes are prevented by adults working now in public schools at every level, which they do every day, every hour, in every district in this country. We are actually winning the war on mental illness and violence in youth, and could be almost completely effective if the money machine for guns, drugs and stupidity weren't so powerful.

      Thanks for the help, conservatives. Thanks a whole frickin Lot for placing barriers to effective work among the at-risk young people of the country.  

      Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

      by OregonOak on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:55:28 PM PST

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      •  What is your perspective? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        glorificus

        How do you come to have this point of view?  Do you know of situations where things are working pretty well or have worked?  Do you know of any literature in this area?

        I think this side of discussion is mostly missing.

        hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

        by Stuart Heady on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:13:15 PM PST

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        •  32 years of teaching English in every corner (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus

          of the Empire.. with at-risk, "regular," advanced and every nationality in the world. I cannot prove what works, but I do know what works.

          I will do a literature review of effective interventions for teen violence and personality problems. I should anyway... just for my own satisfaction.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:56:43 PM PST

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        •  Thanks for hanging in there on this (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          glorificus, OregonOak

          Thank God for teachers and the sanity that you all promote.

          Have you run across the book, Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings" by Katherine Newman?  There is probably some more work like this out there, but here is an example of someone doing a systematic study on the causes of school shootings.  

          In the end it sounds like common sense.  But I think more work like this could help with the effort to help more kids who need help.  

          A lot of the comments in reaction to this seem to be unable to get away from the problem of profiling potential shooters.  I think that if you look at it this way, you miss the point.  What teachers and schools need is the ability to do what they know how to do, which is to help kids grow up and become sane adults.  The more we get away from focusing on this, the more the result is mayhem.  

          hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

          by Stuart Heady on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 10:25:13 PM PST

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          •  Education is not training.. (0+ / 0-)

            and this is what the behaviorists can never wrap their minds around. They are so busy trying to extinguish this behavior with intermittent reinforcement or promote that behavior with intermittent reinforcement that they forget they are not training pigeons. They are trapped in a bunch of trees, and staring at the bark of one of them, never realizing its the forest that needs their attention.  

            This in my view is the basic problem; the American public is suspicious of Education, but they love Training. The words are used interchangeably so that no discussion ever really gets to the point; what are we talking about?

            Education is the process of creating morally functioning, happy, and healthy human beings who can operate in a democratic fashion for the good of the whole. Training is for the promotion of the individual in competition with other individuals. BIG difference, and until we decide what we want, we wont get either one.

            Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

            by OregonOak on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 01:15:04 PM PST

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      •  A problem with assessing every preventive measure (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MPociask

        There's no practical way to accumulate the numbers that would show that caring adults, or team approaches, or gun bans, or vitamins in the school lunches was preventing violence.

        It's frustrating for someone with a technical turn of mind, and it's a political problem for securing funding.

        I don't have an answer, except to do things that are good ideas anyway.

        •  Prevention is really difficult to brag about.. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Stuart Heady, glorificus

          and yet, you know it when you see it.

          Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

          by OregonOak on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 09:57:36 PM PST

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          •  Oh, do we? Witness the recent claims (0+ / 0-)

            taking lead out of gasoline is at least partly responsible for the drop in violent crimes.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:42:06 PM PST

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