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View Diary: Violent Crime May Be Down Because of Unleaded Gas. (172 comments)

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  •  Fire arms training and target practice (8+ / 0-)

    causes lead exposure too I heard...causing police to be warned not to come in contact with their children and high lead levels in soil...from spent bullets?

    ...And some of the gun control measures will involve compulsory firearms training??

    Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam? Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

    by Starbrite on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 04:32:24 PM PST

    •  I spoke to that below, and some of the RKBAers (5+ / 0-)

      are more informed than I am, but the bullets themselves are not an issue.

      They are almost all jacketed now, and the only real danger was at high velocities the rear of the bullet can become so super heated as to vaporize (the expressin to shoot hot lead is not just an expression). People who poor their own bullets are aware of lead (due to barrel fouling) and so keep their powder loads small enough so as not to zip along too fast.

      In regular purchased amo the exposure actually comes from the tiny percussion cap that ignites the powder. It too gives off a tiny amount of vaporized lead. In a vapor is when lead is dangerous. For that reason indoor ranges often have expensive ventilation systems. Many people don't shoot indoors for that and other reasons.

      Lead bullets themselves in the soil don't leach into groundwater for instance, they simply sit there until someone sifts them all out for recycling. Bullets in soil were the first place scientists looked when they became concerned about lead.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 05:40:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  So it's true (2+ / 0-)

        that shooting firearms causes exposure to this lead 'vapor' that you speak of??  And this lead vapor cause the person to become more violent?

        What then if training becomes compulsory with gun ownership ...or what about the teachers who are supposed to train with firearms??  Will they be subjected to lead exposure?  Great. Violent teachers with guns.
        Violent police with guns?

        My son's father took him to target practice with real guns last year- (much to my annoyance)...should I be concerned about this lead vapor??

        So I don't know what to make of this.

        Frodo: What are we holding onto, Sam? Sam: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo... and it's worth fighting for.

        by Starbrite on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 06:57:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  a good indoor range has very powerful ventilation (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Starbrite, ban nock

          systems to control this problem.  I only shoot outdoors myself and trained the rugrats the same, only outside shooting for them period....

          The bullet is not the problem as much as the primer which is made with lead styphanate and as an aerosol can be ingested through the lung lining....

          The projectile itself is not a  problem as it is not exposed to heat long enough to melt the base....eating, where the stomach acids can break down the lead and breathing the primer fumes are the 2 dangers to shooters and both are minimal unless shooting indoors without adequate ventilation....

          They are introducing lead free primers as we speak and the transition will be complete in 10 years or so if they hold up as well as they seem to....

          I worked on cars and with leaded gas for many many years, I cast my own projectiles and reload where there can be lead dust in the spent cases and the tumbler media we use to clean cases and still had a blood count of 7 at my last checkup....Did not worry my doctor at all plus I do use ventilation while casting and am careful to wash after handling lead before eating or smoking....unlike my garage days where I was often eating with one hand and handling lead with the other.....

          For overkill safety, get your son one of the inexpensive filter masks available at any hardware store and have him wear it with his eye and ear protection when shooting.... NIOSH N-95 min and N-99 is better.........it cant hurt though it might be a bit of overkill....still, it can not hurt so you might as well. at least while he is young and his brain is still developing.....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 07:15:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  These guys would know (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ban nock, buddabelly, Starbrite

          Information on lead poisoning.

          Lead poisoning is not considered an appreciable risk to hunters, especially since lead is mostly concentrated in the liver and kidneys of birds, rather than the flesh. A large number of lead-poisoned birds must be consumed in a very short period of time before levels would reach toxicity in humans.
        •  one other thing, the correlation only holds for (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Starbrite, 417els, antimony

          children exposed to lead in fairly high quantities.  For adults, lead can be dangerous but there is nothing I know of showing even correlation between adult lead exposure and violence let alone causation which has not really been shown in kids either but knowing what we do about lead, it is a good idea to avoid exposure with safety equipment....

           So I wouldnt worry much about adult training or teachers training and their lead exposure....

          It is worth it to go the extra step of a mask for the little ones but I dont see the point as an adult unless shooting indoors on a range with inadequate ventilation.....

          When casting or tumbling, I use a fan to blow any airborne particles away and never do either in the house to avoid contaminating other surfaces as well as keeping careful control of the dross and recycling it as a hazardous waste as the dross contains the worst of the dangerous compounds....

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Thu Jan 03, 2013 at 08:08:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, this hypothesis about unleaded gas (2+ / 0-)

      contributing (even partially) to decreasing crime throws a bunch of water on that crackpot NRA-hatched theory that more guns has led to less crime.  Combine this with other factors such as more police on the streets and better technology, and that old NRA zombie lie can finally be laid to rest.

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