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  •  i find it odd that you don't focus (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kalmoth, edwardssl, Catte Nappe, doroma

    on the Republican Party here.  There's ONE party in Washington dedicated to killing government, they're on record with that goal.  You use the media's false equivalency fallback here, and no one challenges that.  

    We've never had the Congress you talk about, this isn't a movie it's real life.  Politics is always messy.  America isn't unique in that regard.  Representative democracies start with one huge problem:  people, who are not all alike.  Blue Dog Dems represent a more conservative populace than Progressive Dems.  Their job is to make sure their constituents are represented, whether we approve of their ideas or don't.  

    If you want a government that more closely mirrors your vision get out in the world and work for that.  Organize locally, run for the School Board, the Water Commission, City or Town Council.  Speak up IRL where actual voters can be sold on Progressive solutions.  Write letters, post on local sites, be an active member of the local party, learn the ropes of negotiating, compromise, respect for others.  

    Progressives remain outliers in the larger party because we act more as spoilers than as committed members.  It took the popularity of the centrist President so many here disparage to get Progressives elected to Congress.  

    Obama is teaching Americans that government is supposed to work for them.  Help spread that word, stop raging at him for taking his job seriously.  He's the president of everyone, a refreshing change from Bush et al.  If we got that, if we started supporting that concept, we could end up with real impact on the future.  

    This is not new.  Progressives in the '30's complained about FDR the same way we complain about Obama.  You may note that we're not the core of the Democratic Party 70 years later.  We need to change , or stay on the fringes.

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:36:55 AM PST

    •  You really don't (7+ / 0-)

      see a huge chunk of the Democratic party as being complicit?

      Two halves of the same problem.

      •  Good point. Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        andersr

        Neither party is innocent. Perhaps this website should focus on "better Democrats" instead merely "more Democrats".

         Which reminds me that if my representative, Denny Heck, fails to do his part to fix the system then he won't be getting my vote when two years come around.

        •  Keep up the progressive pressure (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gjetost

          on Mr. Heck.  Couldn't vote for him as I am just to the North of his new district.  Got a decent replacement for Norm Dicks though, Derek Kilmer, who I intend to start pressuring as soon as I can find his email.

          "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please" Mark Twain

          by andersr on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 04:41:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The Ds helped create the fake fiscal cliff crisis (4+ / 0-)

        And have been enablers of every bad idea that got shoved through from NAFTA to DOMA to Glass-Stegal repeal the Bush Tax Cuts to the Patriot Act to FISA to the Iraq War.

        They are merrily enabling all this crap. Some because they share the GOP's goals, some because they are just too lacking in principles or courage to challenge the existing conventional wisdom.

        Yeah. BrooklynBadBoy as entirely correct in not specifically laying the problem at the feet of the GOP.

        The Democrats have always had the same power of obstructionism that the GOP has been using for the last 4 years to thwart any progressive change at every turn. They just don't use it.

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 08:54:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Once we saw them refuse to let (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Scott Wooledge

          the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010, before the Republicans took over the House, that should have let us all know exactly how much...and how little...they were on our side.

          if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:36:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Chris Hayes called them out of FISA (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SouthernLiberalinMD

            today. Noting when Bush was president that FISA was the worst thing ever, and a dismantling of the Fourth Amendment.

            He shows video clips of Reid calling Bush's bill unconstitutional.

            He shows Reid calling Obama's completely identical bill this week, "An important piece of legislation... necessary to protect us from the evil in the world."

            Of course, the people at this site, for the most part, stopped caring about warrantless wiretapping when it was no longer Bush invading our privacy.

            So, the problem is bigger than just the Democratic establishment. :-/

            "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

            by Scott Wooledge on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:53:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  The kabuki over filibuster reform, on both sides, (8+ / 0-)

      after the past four years, is a perfect example of how both parties are complicit, even if one side is more egregious.

      The false equivalence of note here is the one created by a President (and his most ardent supporters) who compromises with psychopaths as if their policy positions are equally valid, simply because he likes the idea of compromise.

      But for the centrists, frankly, the Republicans wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem. They give the Right half of its oxygen.

      The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

      by Words In Action on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:55:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Being a bully, ignoring the core concepts (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        edwardssl, doroma

        of representative democracy isn't progressive.  It 's closer to anarchy.  We didn't turn out in large enough numbers in 2010 so we got loons in the House and in many state governments.  We don't run for school boards or local councils, so the more passionate RW wins and builds a crazy bench.  Want change?  Vote in every damn election.  Work locally. Want to whine?  Avoid local activism and blog all day.  The choices are simple.  You'll have a more Progressive government if you build it.  You'll have negligible impact if your activism stops with signing online petitions and commenting on blogs.  Your choice.

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 07:12:45 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You make wild assumptions (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, MrJayTee, shaharazade, 3goldens

          about both the limits of my engagement and the functional wherewithal of contemporary elections and representative government for producing results on a timescale that will matter.

          The planet is boiling and you're lobbying for "solutions" that will produce no better than an endless string of offsetting +1/64th, -1/64th measures for at least a generation before it has any impact, which, given a small miracle, might lead to offsetting 1/32nd measures.

          Frankly, the environmental, economic and social impact of the Great Disruption that Climate Change has in store for us will make all of your measures and the state of government today completely irrelevant in the not-so- distant future. So you can ignore calls for more radical measures and decry more demanding approaches as "uncivilized", but the planet has news for you.

          The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

          by Words In Action on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:10:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  When did climate change enter this (0+ / 0-)

            discussion?  Where exactly were you when Progressive pundits and activists were dissing Gore and praising Nader?  Do you not believe that a President Gore might have made a huge difference?  Where were Progressives when Carter was mocked for suggesting we conserve energy?  Who on the Progressive side fought furiously for his reelection?  

            You seem to believe you're right and Kos is wrong.  there's no point in working for change.  That may be why Progressives have never become the core of the Democratic party, and maybe that's a good thing.  If you don't believe in working for change you essentially believe in forcing it on people.

            I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

            by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:33:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Climate Change is (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              3goldens, JesseCW, MrJayTee, squarewheel

              in EVERY political discussion.

              Again, your questions make unproven assumptions that have little basis in fact.

              It's not black and white, "(I'm) right and kos is wrong...there's no point working for change."

              I worked this election cycle. Hard. But I have no illusions that that is a drop in the bucket to what needs to be done to address the real threats that we face. And I have no illusions about contemporary elections and representative government producing the change needed to avoid massive, global pain and suffering. And you're worried about potentially having to force change on a dysfunctional government in order to save the planet...? The planet and the people on it aren't worth saving unless everyone agrees how and when to do it?

              The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

              by Words In Action on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:42:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hey, the Democrats aren't dictators! (0+ / 0-)
                Obama is teaching Americans that government is supposed to work for them.
                It's a shame Americans have to be taught, being as they are too stupid to tie their own shoes, but that's the way it is.  We are truly blessed to have a president who understands that saving the world from a climate disaster is not worth doing if we're going to be rude.  

                Power must be used politely!

                Thank heaven above our polite president understands this.  Just because you won an election doesn't give you the right to hurt anyone's feelings.

                Polite/Courteous 2016!

                •  Wow that didn't even try to make (0+ / 0-)

                  sense.  Did I hit a nerve?  Have you missed everything Obama has accomplished on climate change?  In a country of dolts?  He actually does shit rather than posturing and prancing around. Somehow I prefer that.

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:26:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Clearly you have nothing. You're arguing a point (0+ / 0-)

                  I didn't make.  

                  I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                  by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:32:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  The GOP doesn't deserve to get its way. (0+ / 0-)

                  They have no business trying to shove austerity down our throats.

              •  Just making your point, really. No one bothered (0+ / 0-)

                40 years ago so we're hurting more today.  If no one bothers now we're hurting more in 40 years.  I'm not sure why that bugs you.  If it really is too late for action, pour yourself some drinks and wait for the end.

                I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                by I love OCD on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 04:30:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  If a madman were chopping down your front door (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              3goldens, MrJayTee

              would you be telling your spouse and children that it wouldn't be right to "force" him to stop?

              The Class, Terror and Climate Wars are indivisible and the short-term outcome will affect the planet for centuries. -WiA "When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill..." - PhilJD

              by Words In Action on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:56:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  This article by Naomi Klein was written (0+ / 0-)

              over a year ago and demonstrates that at least the Republicans get that Climate Change is in every political discussion one way or another.

              http://www.thenation.com/...

              One has to give Republicans credit.  Since Goldwater they have played a consistent long game with star fish like pressure (when two arms get tired trying to pull open a tasty bivalve, simply switch to two not so tired arms) on the political fabric of every level of our democracy.  

              Democrats are starting to show an inkling of this strategy with the protection of Social Security and Medicare, but we have a long (pun intended) way to go to match the Repugs.

              "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please" Mark Twain

              by andersr on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 05:05:18 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Hear, hear! (0+ / 0-)

      Great comment would make a great diary.

    •  The Republican Party caused this breakdown, (8+ / 0-)

      but Democrats have been part and parcel to it and compliant with it. You're trying to distinguish the culprits from the conspirators.

      This isn't "messy." This is Albany-style total dysfunction. The way you tell it, government has always risked default and shutdown. Umm, no it hasn't. These things are new.

      I espect lawmaking to be contentious and hard fought. Anyone who knows my writing here knows I'm all for a take no prisoners form of politics...all the way up to the line of criminal law. I believe the winning party should get to govern and let the people suffer the consequences. And when we have divided government we should have the status quo until the people resolve it one way or the other, with the minority party respecting the will of the people and the majority party respecting it as well.

      But this...this is not normal. This is quite new, this sort of create a crisis in order to not solve a crisis form of government. Saying this is normal is almost like saying Civil War is normal.

    •  Pretzel logic (7+ / 0-)

      Which amounts to "Stop demanding the party reflect your core values and leave the President alone!"

      Progressives, particularly the alleged progressives in Congress, are outliers because they don't use the power they have, continually giving in to the neoliberals and their patsies who think compromising the well being of working people is some kind of virtue.

      Obama is teaching Americans that government is supposed to work for them.
      What Obama (and more to the point, his class) are teaching Americans is that their safety net is a poker chip for the neoliberal coup against the people, the "Grand Bargain", where we finance wars and corporate welfare and leave the old, the poor, and the sick holding the bag.

      Try as you might, you will never silence the people who understand this.  These are the people fighting for what's left of the soul of the Democratic party, despite the superstitions and manipulations of the "centrists" who want Americans to think eating less shit than the Republicans want to feed you is an ethical compromise.

    •  It's the Democrats who have the solution! (4+ / 0-)

      It's the Democrats - those we elect and the voters - who must be incited to organize & act differently, govern more strategically and courageously, unite to take the helm. Republicans may be a problem but they're not the solution.

      There are no solutions being planned. That's evident. No new course. There is no reason to believe things will get better.

       

      •  Exactly. (4+ / 0-)

        We know the disease.  The problem is that those in a position to treat it refuse to do so...they and their chorus of excuse-makers who will sacrifice themselves and the rest of us to keep from seeing the doctor for what he is.

      •  And if the Democrats don't use that solution (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ThompsonLazyBoy

        we have to ask why not? Time and again it becomes, "Oh, they just didn't have the votes to stop... (DOMA, Glass-Stegall repeal, Iraq war, save the Public Option, filibuster reform... in 2010, in 2012)..."

        You have to ask, why not? Why do they keep enabling this crap? Why do they never stop and figure out why they're enabling it and how to fix that?

        What good are their principles if they are impotent to execute them?

        By design, or just sloppiness, I think Glenn Greenwald's rotating villain scenario hit the nail on the head explaining why we have two halves of the same party.

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."—Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Sun Jan 06, 2013 at 09:29:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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