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View Diary: Gun Control vs Social Security (160 comments)

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  •  Doing the impossible (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bhut jolokia, lungfish, poco

    The history of America is the history of accomplishing the impossible.  If we are committed, I believe that we can regulate guns and ammo, make SS sustainable for future generations, AND throw of the yoke of business and wealthy interests that now hold our law-makers in thrall.

    Here is a list of things we accomplished that were once thought of as impossible:
     - It was impossible that a gaggle of poor farmers and frontiersmen could fight and defeat the military might of the British empire.
     - It was impossible to form a nation out of the disparate states of a distant empire.
     - It was impossible that slavery would be abolished in America, and the constituional protections for slavery could be removed from law.
      - It was impossible that women could gain the right to vote.
     - It was impossible for workers to band together against the might of monied interests to lobby for better working conditions.  
     - It was impossible that black children could attend the same schools as white children.
     - It was impossible for women to gain control of their own reporductive biology.
     - It was impossible to fly faster than the speed of sound or put a man on the moon.

    All these things and more were accoplished, despite being impossible.  In retrospect, one thing that had to happen before any of these things to be accomplsihed was for concerned citizens to unite and move with a single purpose.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:20:28 AM PST

    •  Purty words! (12+ / 0-)

      Now let me see you strike a match on a marshmallow.

      All those accomplishments you listed above were desirable changes.

      This isn't.

      This is feel good legislation that does nothing to address the underlying issues.

      I talked with ole Don this morning, the 84-year-old dude who does mornings on the AM.

      Yes, indeed, sayeth the ole duck, you sure coulda gone into a gun shop in 1955 and walked out ten minutes later with an M-1 AND a 1911,  gone straight to the nearest elementary school, and slaughtered 20 kids in seconds, were you so inclined.

      THAT'S the question right there. What changed? It's not simply the availability of guns. Why does this happen now, but not back then?

      "Everything I do is blown out of proportion. It really hurts my feelings." - Paris Hilton

      by kestrel9000 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:24:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sadly, many of those changes were unpopular (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco, bhut jolokia

        Sadly, many of the impossible accomplishments I listed above were unpopular in their day.

        A lot of early Americans did not want to break with the British.  Allowing equality for blacks and women were highly unpopular in their time.  Labor unions were (and are even today) highly unpopular.

        I agree with you that many Americans like their guns and do not want any change in gun laws.  Whether they are a majority of Americans is an open question.  Sometimes, advancing legislation, even in the face of great public disapproval, is the right thing to do

        I am also willing to agree with you that legislation that addresses only "assault" guns is "feel good legislation" that does little to advance the common good.  In my opinion, more should be done to protect the public against gunshot injury.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:54:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  They can't talk about that because LaPierre (5+ / 0-)

        muddied the damn waters by giving his reasons it's happening today.

        Hell, I'll say it though.

        Violence in movies, TV's and video games.  Children are being taught it's cool to go out in a flame of glory, killing as many people as possible on the way out.

        They've been conditioned into not seeing themselves or us as human.  I do believe this is exactly what our Military Industrial Complex wishes from its future recruits, tough shit if there may be collateral damage along the way.

        And didn't someone around here say that the reason they're so effective at their shooting skills is because that's what video games actually do, train them to kill quickly and effectively.

        Who wudda thunk?!

        Ugh!

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:03:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  where in my diary (8+ / 0-)

      did i use the word "impossible"?

      all i am saying is that if people want to see SS, etc. left alone, then we need to drop the calls for an AWB post haste and pursue other means of addressing (gun) violence.  because an AWB will cost us electorally, which then precludes leaving SS, etc. alone.

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:33:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You did not say "impossible" (0+ / 0-)

        I understand your article did not say securing both SS and AWB was impossible.

        "I don't know, but I've been told, it's hard to run with the weight of gold.
        'Other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead."

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:02:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Most of the things you listed (6+ / 0-)

      are examples of expanding liberty.
      The AWB is an example of contracting liberty.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:50:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Many Americans thought that (0+ / 0-)

        Many Americans (millions!) thought that abolishing slavery was the perfect example of a tyrannical government stepping on their individual freedom to own slaves and interfere with their business arrangements - freedoms that at that time were enshrined in the constitution, no less.

        To these millions of Americans, the effort to end slavery was a restriction of their rights.

        Same with the fight for workers' rights and collective bargaining.  Many Americans thought worker unions was a communist take-ver plot, and a restriction on the rights of business owners.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 11:09:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then "many Americans" were wrong. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000

          Liberty has a meaning "NOUN: 1)The condition of being free from restriction or control.
              2)Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
              3)A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights. "

          In no reasonable manner could one claim that slavery was an example of liberty. Nor can one claim gun control is an example of liberty.

          Gun Control is a clear cut example of sacrificing liberty for security.
          And that is not something I am willing to do.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 06:03:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Aren't you one of the people... (0+ / 0-)

      saying that resisting a tyrannical government is impossible?

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