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View Diary: Gingrich says Republicans will 'cave' on their 'dead loser' debt limit bluff (177 comments)

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  •  And this caused us to default on the debt how? (4+ / 0-)

    Pols do this all the time, angling for amendments they want, but having no intention to not vote for the final bill. Are you telling me that if, after a series of preliminary bills and amendments, a final vote is put before the house that, if it fails, will lead to the US defaulting on its debt, there will be even ONE Dem who will vote against it, knowing that it would doom them politically (not to mention being the most irresponsible thing they've ever done in congress)?

    Which Dem? Name just one who is on record as wanting or being ok with us defaulting on our debt? Just ONE.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 08:57:40 AM PST

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    •  What are you even talking about? What I said was (1+ / 0-)
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      that there are not 17 House GOP members who would sign the "clean raise" discharge petition that Jacoby Jonze envisions--that not even all Democrats would sign it. How do I know? Republicans and plenty of Democrats have a demonstrated recent history of not voting for the very bill that the envisioned discharge petition is supposed to bring to the floor for a vote. There were no amendments. There were no preliminary bills. It was a straight forward bill to raise the debt ceiling and 82 Democrats and all republicans voted Nay. What has changed now to make them (Rs & Ds) vote differently on a clean raise?

      And, by the way, at the time they voted Nay on 5/31/11, we had supposedly already hit the debt limit on 5/16/11.

      You want a list of the names of the 82 Democrats who voted against a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling? Here

      •  I am talking about how the process works (1+ / 0-)
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        The clean bill was an initial bill, not the final bill. They do this every time to get a sense of what the baseline is before tossing in all sorts of amendments. That this or that person voted against a preliminary bill doesn't mean that they won't or didn't vote for the final bill. That's how legislation is made. How the vote went on a preliminary bill is meaningless. It's who votes for the final bill. And I guarantee you that no Dem (ok, maybe a few jerks like Cooper) will vote against any final bill to avert defaulting on the debt if it doesn't include major cuts to entitlements AND their votes are needed, which is all but certain given that most Repubs will vote against it. Now, a bill that includes major cuts to entitlements, that I can see lots of Dems voting against, and rightfully so. But I doubt that such a bill will be the final bill.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 09:33:10 AM PST

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        •  Gotcha. But what I thought Jacoby was talking (0+ / 0-)

          about that I responded to was bringing up a discharge petition to bring a clean bill to the floor for a vote and we'd get at least 17 republicans to vote for it. My point was that I don't think we would. Whether he meant for the petition to be for the final bill or not, I don't know. But even if it were, I don't believe we'd get any republicans and certainly not all Democrats to vote for a clean bill as the final one...hey, maybe that's the plan of action! Woah, that would be deep and would certainly make a bunch of people nervous. Democrats holding on til the end?? Hmmm.

          •  I have to disagree (1+ / 0-)
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            Most likely Boehner will bring a bill to the floor that has enough support to pass rather than risk the humiliation of an end run via discharge. But I believe that if it came to it, the votes for it are there. There are still just enough non-crazy Repubs to make it happen. Perhaps this silly delay on the Sandy relief bill vote was a setup for that, to give NE Repubs a plausible excuse to "betray" Boehner. Don't discount the role of kabuki in this.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Fri Jan 04, 2013 at 10:09:08 AM PST

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