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View Diary: Consent is immutable: modern rape culture (18 comments)

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  •  The Steubenville rape is a classic example (9+ / 0-)

    of the double standard to which we hold men and women. People are accusing the girl of sleeping around and therefore she is immoral, but the boys who raped her are somehow blameless in all of this. We, as parents, teachers, neighbors, and clergy need to understand that rape will continue as long as we say it's OK for "boys to be boys". These boys don't understand the meaning of humanity because they haven't been taught the meaning.

    A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. - Greek proverb

    by marleycat on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 06:10:13 AM PST

    •  An issue with the law (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marleycat, Wee Mama, greengemini

      versus the justice system. Regressive legislation aside, I feel that the criminal code is being undermined by police, judges, and yes even juries who wish to turn rape into a referendum on public morality.

      I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free" - Eugene V. Debs

      by Kazmarov on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 07:00:14 AM PST

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      •  Unfortunately (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marleycat

        Many of these cases occur in situations where the two people involved were the only two people present, there is no or equivocal physical evidence, and a lot of alcohol was involved on the part of both parties.

        It is very difficult to prosecute to a 'beyond reasonable doubt' standard under such conditions. It ends up as one person's word against a second person.

        Almost no cases are documented as well as the Steubensville case and even that case is proving somewhat difficult to prosecute.

        I would submit that an alternative (or concurrent) hypothesis to the 'culture' idea of why many of these cases are not prosecuted is the hypothesis that the nature of this type of crime makes it more difficult to prosecute compared to other types of violent/property crime.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:11:20 AM PST

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        •  This is certainly true (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1

          the rape culture concept works within that, in that it devalues the testimony of one party and elevates another, based on faulty premises.

          Also, a necessary part of many investigations (a rape kit) are backlogged to the point that by the time you have solid evidence, the suspect has had months to disappear.

          I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free" - Eugene V. Debs

          by Kazmarov on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 09:26:51 AM PST

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          •  Re (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            marleycat
            the rape culture concept works within that, in that it devalues the testimony of one party and elevates another, based on faulty premises.
            Well, I mean, you are going to throw someone in prison and ruin their life over the events in question, so to me you had better be pretty sure that you are right. What you might consider to be "rape culture", someone else might consider to be "proving the accusation beyond a reasonable doubt". Our justice system has to be somewhat adversarial in this regard.

            To me, all such accusations should neither be believed nor disbelieved until properly investigated and the facts are ascertained.

            (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
            Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

            by Sparhawk on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 11:18:17 AM PST

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    •  marleycat: those "boys" are NOT blameless. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tom Anderson

      Those "boys" are criminal predators, bordering on sociopathy.

      Their adult enablers and co-conspirators are also criminal predators. They're not bordering on sociopathy. They exemplify it.
      For them nothing is as precious as a winning football team, because if they have a winning football team they have money coming in. They should all be hanged by the neck until dead, IMNVHO, and God can decide whether or not to have mercy on their shriveled souls.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 01:42:41 PM PST

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      •  That was my point. But you put it much more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1

        forcefully than I.

        A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. - Greek proverb

        by marleycat on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 02:14:11 PM PST

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        •  not more forcefully than needed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marleycat

          this is one thing I will be proud to fight for, tooth and nail.

          The right of this girl not to be dehumanized in this way trumps these uckers potential sports careers, and their crooked town's fortunes.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 04:23:46 PM PST

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    •  I'm the father of a 3 yr old girl. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marleycat

      So I've been thinking about this stuff for at least a few years now. And while I've come to some conclusions for our family and my daughter, understanding what makes other people tick is much more difficult.

      I don't think it's so simple that you can blame this on religion, not entirely.

      And while there are cultural elements, there is enough self-disdain baked into our culture (how I loathe to call it that, though it is) that it's also a fairly weak influence.

      I seriously wonder if this isn't a football thing. There will be those who mindlessly lash out at that statement, apologizing for football and accusing me of all sorts of things before they've even finished reading the sentence. But that reaction alone should tell you something.

      I have a friend who played highschool football, and he's talked about it once or twice. It sounds downright bizarre. The ways in which these kids are coached sounds... well, it sounds so unbelievable I don't think I want to repeat it. But they're told they're going to war and I think they manage to tap into some psychological aspect of the human male that should remain buried.

      Look at the activities these kids do prior to games, or afterwards. Vandalism and sexual assault look an awful lot like raping and pillaging.

      •  You make a good point. I think religion plays a (0+ / 0-)

        role, but by no means the only or even a dominant role. Strangely (or maybe not) sports, and particularly football are akin to religion in many parts of the country and the idolatry of team players leads these guys to think they can do whatever they want as long as they win.

        A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. - Greek proverb

        by marleycat on Sat Jan 05, 2013 at 03:34:25 PM PST

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